Mickey: Welcome back.

Poppy: Welcome back, everyone.

Pugly: Welcome back to Secondhand Confessions.

Poppy: Thanksgiving Edition.

Pugly: Ooh.

Mickey: Oh, yeah! I, I think Canada has a Thanksgiving too. Yeah, but it's like a different day or something.

Pugly: Yeah, it was like last month or something.

Poppy: Now why would they do that?

Mickey: I think Canada wants to be America really bad.

Pugly: It's so weird because why?

Mickey: I don't know.

Poppy: It's a big disappointment.

[Theme song]

Mickey: Well, what stories do you have for us today, Pugly?

Pugly: So we have a first story titled “How do I (38F) tell my mom (74F) who has Alzheimer’s that I’m breaking my promise to let her host Thanksgiving?”

Poppy: Oh.

Mickey: Wow. Uh oh…

Pugly: We're starting with a doozy here.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: Any thoughts so far?

Poppy: What are the ages again?

Pugly: So the daughter is 38, and the mother is 74.

Poppy: Okay.

Mickey: Aw, that's sad. Anything to do with Alzheimer's or dementia, I just get so sad.

Poppy: I know, it's such a sensitive subject.

Mickey: So we're gonna have to be extra nice is what you're saying. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah…

Poppy: Oh, no, we can still tear it apart. [laughs] If it requires tearing apart, we are here for that.

Poppy: Alright, sounds good.

Pugly: This was posted the day before Halloween in the r/relationship_advice, subreddit. She says: About three years ago, my sister (who's 28) and I noticed my mom (who's 74) was having memory problems. I live a few hours away but tried to get her help. Unfortunately, she rejected help because she was in denial about it until this year.

About six months ago, my mom came to me and finally admitted she knew something was wrong and wanted help. When she came to me, I told her that she should move closer to where I live so I could help her. I did not get back home to visit very often, but I knew there would be more resources in my city than where she still lived in my old hometown. My hometown is a small, rural town in Appalachia—Appalachia?—however you say that… where the medical care there is very bad, whereas I live in a large city with a medical university and good healthcare options.

My mom was hesitant at first about the change but ultimately found a place to live. When she agreed to buy it, she had one condition: she wanted to host Thanksgiving at her new house, and I readily agreed. I've always usually hosted it at one of my houses, and some of my siblings (there are several of us) always come. I like hosting, and we always have a great time. However, if this is how my mom agrees to accept help, I'm happy to let her host.

The closing moves along, and my siblings and I go to our hometown to move her. We arrive for moving day and discover her house is disgusting. We'd always known she was a bit of a hoarder, but it was beyond any of our worst nightmares. We were in over our heads, but all took a little additional time off work. We spent a week filling dumpsters and got what was salvageable cleaned up and packed up.

I was, to be honest, scared and intimidated by what I'd signed up for. My mom and I have not always had the best relationship. Even with reduced mental capacity, she can be cruel, but still I’d promised to help, so I continued on my plan.

As of today, she's been living in a house next to me for a couple of months now. My mom basically stays at my house a large percentage of the day. In the evening, I go to her house to do chores, and she will stay home to sleep at her house.

I've gotten her under the care of amazing doctors, and they have rapidly figured out that she has Alzheimer's. Things are changing quickly. Since we just got her formerly died diagnosed, we are just now eligible to get her more help, but the process has just begun. For now, my family and I help at her house daily, but it is hard.

She will not listen to our advice. She is buying garbage from Wish and filling her house up again. We clean every day, but she messes it up faster. She has taken in a feral cat who shits on her stove every day no matter how many clean litter boxes we put out. When I tell her the cat should go back outside, she cries.

Today, my mom reminded me that I promised she could host Thanksgiving. My siblings do not want to eat there, and I don't blame them. No matter how much I clean, none of them trust her house since the move. Some of them know about the stove-shitting cat.

How do I tell her I'm taking back hosting?

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: First of all, why is that cat shitting on the stove? [laughs] It couldn’t find anywhere else?

Pugly: Maybe there's like smells there or oils or something that are left over that it just has a tendency to want shit around? I don’t know.

Mickey: Gross.

Poppy: That is out of pocket.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] So, like I, I just want to understand better about her mom's like mental capacity, I guess? Like is she just being stubborn? I know she has Alzheimer's, like, I—

Pugly: Yeah, I think she's forgetting to clean up after herself. And also, I think it exacerbates other issues, like the hoarding could have been, like she said, a premorbid kind of condition.

Mickey: Yeah. So like, do you think that like, like let's say if she sat her mom down and said, “Hey, I just don't think it's sanitary in here,” like her mom would listen?

Poppy: No.

Pugly: No. I mean, she might listen momentarily, but I don't think she's gonna retain it enough to actually enact a change.

Mickey: Ew…

Poppy: Um, I think she's at the point, it sounds like, where she's so far down the line that she needs, you know, additional help.

Mickey: Yeah. That sucks.

Poppy: [sighs]

Pugly: I'd say the stove is concerning in and of itself—beyond just the poop. But like, the fact that she owns a stove and has access to this machinery is concerning, given her state of mind.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah. I don't think she should be—I mean, she, she lives next door to her daughter though, so, like, her daughter is there to keep an eye on her.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: But if she's making this many, like, like if it's that disgusting from one day to the next, just like… Yeah…

Pugly: I work very closely with people with dementia, and often I see them in my line of work, and I did one time encounter a guy who was so disheveled that he smelled like piss when he walked in. Like, he was not cleaning up at all. There was just no hygiene going on. It reminds me of this woman. She's like that far demented that she's just not taking care of herself. It's sad.

Mickey: That is sad.

Poppy: Or like, they, they could be having accidents on themselves.

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah. Or not able to control their bladder.

Poppy: Right, right.

Mickey: I think it's time she lives with somebody, like, whether it's with one of her kids or at a home care—

Pugly: Memory care facility.

Mickey: —memory care facility. Yeah.

Poppy: She seems like she's got a little bit of sass, and I don't think she would agree with that.

Pugly: That's also common—irritability with dementia.

Mickey: Yeah, I bet.

Pugly: Yep.

Mickey: Um, I've heard that, I mean, there's different techniques to convince someone with dementia of something, like one could be convincing them that it was their idea in the first place or something. Is that—

Poppy: What, like, reverse psychology her? [chuckles]

Mickey: Yeah. Like, “Oh, remember mom?” Like, “You said you didn't want to anymore because [whatever]”

Pugly: What, what would you want them to convince her of?

Poppy: To not host.

Mickey: Yeah. To not host.

Poppy: To be like, “No, you said, you said you didn't want to do it anymore.” Like, “We said that, you know, so and so is going to do it this year.”

Pugly: I'm kind of surprised she remembers at all that she was suggesting that in the first place, actually.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Mhm. That she promised. “You promised me I could host this year.”

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I mean, maybe she can just host it at her daughter's place. Like she can be the “host,” the quote unquote host, and just sort of guide people in the house, like, give them a tour if they need it or, you know…

Poppy: Yeah, that’s not a bad idea.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Maybe she can come early and help make the turkey or the, the important dishes.

Mickey: Mhm. Mhm. That's a good idea too. But like, my concern is if it's not clean enough for, for her siblings to wanna like go there for Thanksgiving, then why are they okay with her living there by herself?

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: So, I feel like they should just go there once a week and deep clean or something.

Poppy: Well, who has time for that? I can barely clean my house.

Pugly: Yeah. I think like you say, she probably is due for the memory care facility at this juncture. Like if she can't, if she has a feral cat living and shitting on her stove, like, that's just unsanitary.

Mickey: Yeah… I, I would, I think what I would do is I… Like me and my siblings, let's pool our resources, pay for someone to come clean her place, and the mom can host, but we all go over there early and like help cook because she can't do it by herself, and use it as a bargaining chip for her to go to a facility. Or to move in with one of us.

Poppy: Mmm… There's just no way to know how the mother would take any of that because…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah. With the irritability especially. It's unpredictable.

Poppy: That's exactly right.

Pugly: Well, there are also support groups that I would encourage these people to go to—both for the patient and the caregivers. Which it sounds like maybe they're a little uninformed? They said that they have good medical care around surrounding this, you know, situation, but it sounds like they're allowing this woman to live independently when she really doesn't seem to be capable of that.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: Hm…

Poppy: This is tough.

Pugly: Yeah. This is tough because, like, 74 also, isn't that young? Like, it's not early onset for sure, but it’s still like, you know, you want your parents to live a lot longer than that, and she's already showing pretty significant signs of dementia.

Mickey: Yeah. And, like, does her healthcare cover any of the costs of, like, you know, a nurse?

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Or whatever.

Poppy: Probably not.

Pugly: Caregiving services, yeah.

Mickey: Mhm. Damn, this is a bummer.

Pugly: Yeah…

Mickey: Happy Thanksgiving. [laughs]

Pugly: Happy Thanksgiving!

Poppy: Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm grateful for my family and their ability to remember things.

Pugly: Mine too. Yeah. I hope that doesn't change.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: I mean, my grandpa, um, he's showing like, signs of Alzheimer's. Not, like, nonfunctioning, but, like, he forgets, he forgets like food he likes or dislikes, like, one day he'll like eating something, and the next day he won't.

Pugly: Hm.

Poppy: And he has to, like, write things down all the time now. And, um… But at least my grandma is there to, like, you know—

Mickey: Help out.

Poppy: —keep him going.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: But an older parent on their own with nobody, like, keeping eyes on them, like, 24/7… That’s hard. And I don't think she needs to be alone.

Mickey: I agree.

Poppy: And that's, that's just the conclusion we've reached besides, she also should not host Thanksgiving dinner because it's nasty; it's nasty; it's nasty in there.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I think she can be the de facto host at someone else's place.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: She can take on the role. Like, she can get the, the title of host. But yeah, I think doing it in an unhygienic place is not good for anybody.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Mhm. Did she end up saying what she did?

Pugly: No updates on this one. There are a few comments. Someone else said, um, goodbye-toilet-cat, in fact, said, “Unplug her stove and tell her it’s broken, so sad… Going to be very expensive to fix, and the repairman is booked solid. But can she “host” at your house?”

Yeah, I like that.

Poppy: I think that’s good.

Pugly: I like the suggestion of just having her host elsewhere.

Mickey: Yeah. And the unplugging the stove.

Pugly: Yeah, the unplugging the stove as well. The OP did respond to that comment. They said, “We maybe could try this. She does not cook; she eats at our house every night, so she has never used her stove to know whether or not it works. She is very insistent that she wants to make the desserts though.

It's also important to mention she relies on and expects my mom, aunt, and I to handle everything, so if she did believe the stove was broken, she would expect us to get it fixed for her immediately. She is not very understanding of limitations that we have—like she would be mad at us if we didn't get it fixed before Thanksgiving.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Is this her mother or her grandmother?

Pugly: Her… her mom.

Mickey: She said she's reliant on my mom. So the mom is reliant on the mom?

Pugly: Hmm.

Mickey: Hmm.

Pugly: Maybe, maybe, maybe she just made a typo.

Mickey: Oh, maybe, maybe her, like stepmom or something?

Pugly: Yeah…

Mickey: Yeah. Maybe a typo. Um… My grandma, one of my grandmas, um, is kind of like this and refused to, like, live with anyone and also refused to, like, we were gonna get her, like, these nurses to come check on her every day or every few days and get her groceries and, like, clean out the fridge and stuff. But, like, she refused. And that was a conversation between my dad and I. I was like, I mean, at this point, I don't know if you can just, like, just take that at face value. Like, oh, well, she said no, so I’m not going to. Like, I know she's your mom, but, like—

Pugly: Like, how much autonomy should you give somebody who's clearly not fully there mentally?

Poppy: Mhm. Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. And you're not really, like, you're not controlling her, you're just… getting someone to help out. So, I feel like, I don't know.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: But every time we would go over there—I mean, she lives in a different country so, um, we don't go there often—but whenever we would go over there, my sister and I would go into the kitchen and, like, because she lives alone we would, um, just, like, clean up a little, and there's like dishes everywhere and like, we'd open the fridge and like, things were rotting, and we’d, you know, throw it out and put new stuff in. Like, obviously we're not there all the time. We're usually there just like, once a year, if that.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Um, so I was like, you know, you, you got to get her somebody to help her, but my dad won't because he’s like, “She said no.”

Poppy: Hm.

Pugly: Hm.

Poppy: I'd be like, “Let me tell you something, lady.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: “I said this.” Like I… No, it's literally like reverse when your parents would be like, “No, you can't go to the mall tonight with your friends because I said so,” like, and it's all just to protect you or something, like, I’m, I just, it's, it's kind of sad that like, although we're like, you know, pretty young, like we do start to have these thoughts about our family and like our parents because they are getting older, and we may have to think of this one day.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: But the feral cat shitting on the stove is just the first thing to go for me.

Pugly: Mhm. Yeah. That thing has got to leave the house, that's for sure.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Nobody wants that type of Thanksgiving surprise.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Poop pie.

Pugly: Yeah. [laughs] Poop pie.

Mickey: Sweet poop pie. [laughs]

Poppy: Oh God. [laughs] Aw… I hope they figure it out.

Mickey: Yeah. Mhm.

Pugly: But um, we do have another story.

Poppy: Let's hear it.

[Transition theme song]

Pugly: So, this one is a little lighthearted, or lighter. It's titled, “Am I the asshole for telling my sister she's not allowed to bring her homemade food to Thanksgiving because her cooking is ruining the meal?”

Poppy: Oh…

Mickey: I'm gonna say yes.

Pugly: That they are the asshole?

Mickey: Yeah. I feel like there's… I mean, if that's how it was said, I feel like there's better ways to go about it.

Pugly: Agreed, agreed.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Poppy, any, any feelings on this?

Poppy: Well, just let her bring it.

Pugly: [laughs] Yeah, that's how I felt when I first read this. I was like, “What's the big deal?”

Poppy: But how is it ruining the meal? Okay, like…

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: This better be something juicy because… don't be dramatic and her crappy side dish is not good and no one barely touched it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Ruining the entire meal.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Well, here's what SocietyTiny784 said: Every year, our family does a big Thanksgiving dinner, and we all typically bring a dish or two. My sister, who's a lovely person in every other way, insists on cooking something homemade every time. The issue? She's… not a great cook. And I don't mean just “not great.” I mean, she has somehow managed to turn classic dishes into borderline inedible creations.

For context, last Thanksgiving, she showed up with her “special recipe” stuffing that was over-seasoned with random spices like cinnamon and cardamom. It was dry, and the flavors were confusing and totally off for stuffing. Only one person took a small bite, and the rest went untouched. Another year, she brought a green bean casserole that had some kind of strange, chewy texture. She later admitted that she used coconut milk and almond flour “to experiment.” No one wanted seconds of that either.

This year, I'm hosting Thanksgiving. Since I'm responsible for putting it all together, I wanted to keep the menu consistent so that people could actually enjoy a cohesive meal. I thought I'd avoid drama by asking her to bring non-food items instead—like wine, soda, or even some flowers. I explained to her (very kindly, I thought) that I just wanted to make things easy and streamlined, and I'd handle the main dishes. But she didn't take it well.

She got offended and told me I was being “controlling” and “shutting her out” of the family gathering. She then accused me of making her feel inadequate and said that Thanksgiving is about everyone contributing, not me deciding what's “acceptable.” I told her that everyone appreciates her effort, but that she could contribute in other ways and still be part of it. She doubled down and said she's bringing her “famous” green bean casserole, whether I like it or not.

Now, my mom and a couple of other family members have chimed in, saying I should just let her bring whatever she wants because “it's Thanksgiving” and “it's the thought that counts.” They're acting like I'm committing some huge offense by wanting the food to be enjoyable for everyone and not have random experimental dishes that no one will eat.

But I feel like I'm just trying to keep the meal enjoyable and, frankly, edible. I don't think it's wrong to want guests to actually enjoy the food, especially since I'm putting in a lot of effort to host. Am I really being unreasonable here? Am I the asshole?

Mickey: Ooh, this is a tough one.

Pugly: Yeah, so she didn't say, “You're ruining the meal.” She did say it in a nicer tone.

Poppy: Well, she said that in the caption though.

Pugly: Right.

Mickey: So I feel like she did say that.

Pugly: But her description of it in the post itself said otherwise.

Mickey: Well, I feel like she kind of glanced over that or whatever.

Pugly: What do you mean?

Poppy: I don't know. Her sister's reaction seemed like way too big for her to just have said like, “Oh, I'm just trying to make it easier.”

Poppy: Yeah. Well, this is just… Okay, so here's what I would do. I would let her bring her shitty green bean casserole, and I would make another green bean dish.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Competition!

Poppy: But also like, if you're hosting and someone's like, “Don't bring any food, like please just get wine or drinks or a dessert,” you know, “Go pick a cake up” or something, just do that. Why do we have to fight and say, “No, I'm going to bring the green bean casserole”? Also read the room. Mmk? When you bring something to a potluck, you're gonna, you're gonna watch and see if people are eating your thing.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Like, if people are eating it, if it's almost gone, that means, that means people liked it. If there's barely any gone, mmk?

Pugly: Yep.

Poppy: If no one's going to get seconds of your dish—

Pugly: They just didn't see it.

Poppy: No, no, they didn't like it.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: They didn't like it. [laughs]

Mickey: Yeah, and it, it, it seems like it's not the first time, like, it's happened several times.

Pugly: Yeah. It has. Someone did ask: “How does your sister react when no one eats her food?” I think that's a good question because I feel like if she has the impulse to, like, require people to console her whenever she, you know, discovers that her food was not popular, then that does make her—the sister—kind of an asshole for bringing this on people each, every year.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: But if she's like okay with the fact that it's an experimental dish and she just wants to try it out to see how people respond to it and it's like, it's just a kind of experiment for everybody, then I don’t see the harm.

Poppy: I certainly wouldn't have come to Reddit for it, that’s for sure. I’d just be like, “Alright, well, just bring your dish and see you soon.”

Mickey: Yeah. I feel like both of them are in the wrong. Like, they're both being kind of petty.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Yeah, I can see that. Someone else said, “You're the asshole. It's one dish that everybody knows is bad and won't eat. Why is it a big deal?” And SocietyTiny784 responded, “I get where you're coming from, but it's not just one dish. It's every year, and every year she brings multiple dishes with strange combinations that no one eats. And it ends up feeling awkward because she keeps pushing people to try her food and you're stuck pretending it's not that bad or trying to avoid it altogether.”

So there's a little more insight into how people or how she responds to people, not, you know, being receptive to her dishes.

Mickey: Okay, so what, so what? It makes you feel awkward that, you know, no one's eating your sister's dishes, so you're gonna rain on her parade? Like, whatever, like if it makes her that upset, like, just let her bring it. But then at the same time, when, when the poster told the sister, like, oh, I've got everything covered, just bring whatever she said wine or whatever, like the sister should have been like, “Okay,” because this is not, you're not hosting.

Poppy: Right.

Mickey: Like, but immediately she was like, “Oh, you are just trying to control everything.” So, like, it seems like, it seems like this is a pattern. It seems like the poster frequently tries to control things, and the sister doesn't read the room and takes it personally or whatever.

Pugly: Yeah, I can see that. It does, there is some more context about the sort of dishes that she's made in the past.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: SocietyTiny784 says: “Christmas 2020: She brought a ‘fusion mac and cheese’ with wasabi and horseradish mixed in. Let's just say it was a very unexpected flavor to experience in a traditionally creamy, comforting dish. There were some coughs and watery eyes at the table that night.”

Poppy: [laughs]

Pugly: “Last Thanksgiving,” she says, “This was the infamous ‘cinnamon cardamom stuffing.’ She wanted it to be ‘warm and aromatic,’ but it ended up tasting like a holiday candle. The texture was also super dry, and even though she noticed no one was touching it, she blamed it on us ‘not appreciating new flavors.’

So yeah… This isn't just me being picky. She's made some real ‘adventures’ out of classic dishes, and I'm genuinely nervous for what she's planning with this whole ‘Thanksgiving Trio Experience.’”

That's sort of a spoiler for what's to come in the update, but—

Mickey: This is so sister coded.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: She did, she did describe several other dishes that I did not, um, that I, you know, nixed for the sake of time.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: But yeah, apparently this is a theme of these experimental dishes that she's made.

Mickey: As soon as you said wasabi and mac and cheese, my nose started hurting like…

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Immediately.

Pugly: Yeah, I can't tolerate that shit, you know that, so I, I also have a visceral reaction to it.

Mickey: Yeah. Whew!

Poppy: Don't, don't try to fuse anything about Thanksgiving dinner. Keep it to Thanksgiving dinner. That’s what everyone wants.

Pugly: Yeah, keep it traditional.

Poppy: Keep it traditional.

Pugly: Also, can we just say, don't fuck with mac and cheese? Mac and cheese is good as is.

Poppy: Don’t. Don’t.

Mickey: Yes, it is. I mean, if you make it well. If you put salt—some people don't put even salt, and I'm like, it just tastes like pasta.

Pugly: Don't put new ingredients in mac and cheese though. We don't need—

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. Last night, you guys, I had the best mac and cheese of my life. I just want to say dear listeners, if you're making mac and cheese for Thanksgiving, do use Manchego cheese. Because that shit was fire.

Poppy: Oh!

Mickey: It was the best. Like I said, the best mac and cheese I've ever had.

Pugly: I don't even know if I've heard of that kind of cheese before, but—

Mickey: It's my favorite cheese.

Pugly: Oh, then I guess I have heard of it. But uh anyway, are y’all ready for this update?

Poppy: Let's do it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Alright. So this is an update posted one day later. She said: After our last conversation, my sister was being pretty cagey about what she planned to make, so I reached out to my mom, hoping she could help smooth things over. Instead, she got defensive, saying I'm “overthinking,” and that it's just one dish. I told her I wasn't sure it was just one dish anymore, especially after hearing about my sister's grocery haul (including canned oysters and edible glitter).

Then my mom let slip that my sister has been “hard at work” on some “creative menu” she's planning as her “Thanksgiving surprise.” Apparently, she's been telling the family group chat (which I wasn't included in, by the way) that I'm being “controlling” and that she wants to “expand everyone's palate” with something “truly unique.”

To top it off, my cousin sent me a screenshot from the group chat where my sister said she's bringing not one but three dishes to Thanksgiving now. She's calling them her “Thanksgiving Trio Experience,” complete with their own place settings and little menu cards she's designing. I'm officially panicking because I have no idea what she's planning to serve, and from what I've heard, it's not remotely traditional.

At this point, half the family thinks I'm overreacting, while the other half is texting me things like, “Is she really bringing glittered sweet potatoes?” I feel stuck. If I try to control it anymore, I'm the bad guy, but if I don't, Thanksgiving might turn into a tasting event for my sister's avant-garde cooking.

So, yeah, Thanksgiving is weeks away, and it's already become a family spectacle. I don't know whether to brace myself or just preemptively order pizza.

Mickey: Lol. [laughs] Is her sister seven?

Pugly: Um, her sister… Let me find that for ya. Oh, she doesn't say, I don't think, actually.

Mickey: You know, she might be. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah, that's a good question, actually.

Poppy: Three dishes. Three dishes.

Pugly: Is this like a teenage sister that's like just experimenting with new… Yeah.

Mickey: [laughs] What, oysters, canned oysters, eww, for Thanksgiving?

Poppy: And she, it seems to me that this sister, like, feels confident in her food.

Pugly: Mhm. Yes. Yes, because she's like, “You guys just don't appreciate the sophisticated taste of whatever dish.”

Poppy: That's something we call in denial, sweetie.

Pugly: Mhm. Yeah. I think if everybody is saying the same thing about it, it's, it's, you, you're the problem.

Poppy: Or not even saying, just not eating.

Mickey: Okay. Here's what I think everyone should do. I think the sister should be a lot more considerate. Like, you're not hosting, what are you doing making a trio or whatever? [laughs] I think the rest of the family should be a little bit more honest with her and say, like, joke around, just be like, eww, like, that thing we tried. Because it's kind of seems like it's all falling on the poster’s shoulders to voice like, you know, any negative thoughts about it.

Pugly: Mhm.

Poppy: Yeah.

Poppy: And then I think the poster, like, she should, should just take herself out of it and be like, I'm gonna have, like, you know, another table set up for you so we can do a tasting portion for… like an experience, like she said, and make her feel special in that way because it seems like, I don't know, I think part of it is that she just wants them to like her food.

Pugly: Yeah. Maybe she should always bring multiple dishes, and then they have like a “cooking competition” where they rate each of the dishes and she can see which of them is the most successful.

Poppy: Yeah. [laughs] That’s great.

Pugly: And they all get four’s. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: I guess it depends on these sisters may not be like this, that, as close as, like some, because if it was like, if it was my brother who was bringing this dish that was terrible, I just, I would feel comfortable enough to tell him, “Hey, man, this sucks.”

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: Not, not the day of, not during, but, you know, later I'd be like, “Maybe, or maybe next time you should, maybe not put the wasabi in it,” you know?

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah. “The wasabi really didn't hit for me, so I think maybe try without that next time.”

Poppy: “Sweet potatoes are good without glitter, it’s okay.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Everyone's gonna just shit glitter, I guess.

Pugly: [laughs] Maybe that cat can come, that feral cat can come and eat some and then shit on the stove with some glitter.

Poppy: Now that's a fusion right there.

Pugly: Yeah. There is another update. Y'all ready?

Mickey: Alright. Hit us with it.

Poppy: She says: Alright, so Thanksgiving is now just a little over two weeks away, and somehow, things have escalated even further than I thought possible. I thought maybe my sister's “Thanksgiving Trio Experience” would be the peak of the drama. Well, turns out I was wrong.

Since the last update, my sister has become fully committed to making her “dishes” the main attraction. She's been dropping hints in the family group chat (which I'm still not included in, but shout out to my cousin for the screenshots) about how this Thanksgiving will be “one to remember,” calling it her “Thanksgiving Debut.” She’s apparently been referring to herself as the “Thanksgiving Head Chef” and has hinted that she's bringing some kind of “culinary surprise centerpiece” that will “transform the whole experience.”

From what I can piece together, she's planning a main “statement dish” in addition to her original three side dishes. I'm picturing something equally bizarre, but on a much larger scale, and honestly, I'm terrified. If her green bean casserole was already pushing it, I can't even imagine what she thinks is worthy of being the “centerpiece.”

Then, to make things even weirder, my mom texted me privately and suggested that I “step back” this year and let my sister “shine” since she's “so excited about her contributions.” My mom thinks if we just give her this moment, it’ll make her happy and she’ll “get it out of her system.” She even hinted that maybe I should “focus on decorations and drinks” instead of the main dishes, which feels like an attempt to turn hosting over to my sister without actually saying it.

So now, I'm left with a choice: go along with my mom's plan and let my sister essentially hijack Thanksgiving or keep pushing back and risk a family showdown. I just wanted a nice Thanksgiving with dishes everyone would enjoy, but it seems like I'm either about to hand over the whole meal to her… or prepare for some serious drama.

Thanksgiving isn't even here yet, and it already feels like a circus. I'm half-tempted to just sit back and see what chaos unfolds, but part of me is still worried about subjecting the whole family to whatever “artistic statement” she has planned.

I don't see how she thinks the drama has escalated here because it seems like the situation is still the same as it was in the last update.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Unless I'm just misreading things.

Poppy: Leaving her out of the group chat is already so immature.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Truth.

Mickey: KatFrog says: Maybe suggest that the entire dinner be at either your sister's house or your mother's house. That way you can go and just enjoy the chaos without having to clean up before or after.

Mickey: That's honestly what I was gonna say is like let her do it, and let her fail.

Pugly: Yeah, you gotta let people make their mistakes.

Mickey: Yeah, so, I would tell this poster like you have to let your sister make this mistake, like stop trying to control the situation. Just let her do what she wants to do. She has to get it out of her system.

Pugly: Mmm… As the mother says.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: But like, does she not have taste buds? How can she not tell that her own dishes suck?

Mickey: Maybe she lost them during COVID.

Pugly: Hmm!

Poppy: I, anyone—not everyone can cook, but most people can tell if something is good or not.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah.

Micked: [laughs] I'm scared about this oyster dish.

Pugly: [laughs] Yeah. I don't even know what oyster dish there is at Thanksgiving. That's definitely not a spin on a classic.

Mickey: No. Well, I mean, if I had told you I'm going to be using wasabi in a Thanksgiving dish—

Pugly: True.

Mickey: Would you have guessed mac and cheese? Like, no. [laughs]

Poppy: Nothing.

Pugly: I don't know what I would have guessed.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Immediately uninvited.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Gross.

Poppy: Well…

Mickey: Yeah. I, yeah, so we think that she should let her do it?

Pugly: I think so.

Poppy: She's gonna do it anyways, so, might as well just, might as well just let her come in with that and uh make sure there's plenty of other options for everyone.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe she's jealous of her sister.

Poppy: I mean… Yeah, maybe she hears everyone say like, “Oh my God, your turkey is so good,” and nobody says anything about her dishes or something and she gets jealous or she's the host and she gets all the, “Thank you so much for inviting us and this delicious food.”

Mickey: Yeah. I feel, like, I have a feeling she's really young because I think the older you get, the less that you do this kind of behavior because you're like, wait, but what am I good at? What do I like to do? Like, instead of trying to, you know, be good at the same thing other people are good at.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I think I'm gonna make some venison deviled eggs this year for Thanksgiving.

Poppy: Mmm!

Mickey: [laughs] Still not as weird as wasabi mac and cheese.

Pugly: No, I don't think I can top her, her incredible creations.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Who even thinks about that? Like, I actually wanna look that up right now. Um… Asian fusion—I'm assuming it's Asian fusion…

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Mac and cheese with wasabi…

[Transition theme song]

Pugly: So this one's titled, “My kids won't come to Thanksgiving or Christmas.” This was posted by The_Dudes_Dudes in the r/AITAH subreddit.

He says: I know, I know. This is fake; I'm a troll; this never happened. Blah, blah, blah… This is 100% true.

I have two daughters that are both in college. We have a family group chat with my parents, all of my siblings, and all the grandchildren. My parents and siblings are all Trump voters and supporters and are not shy about it. Most family gatherings will devolve into arguing between them and myself. I grew up in the shitshow. My kids did not.

After the election, my kids silently left the group chat. My mother and sisters are trying to plan Thanksgiving through the chat. When my mother noticed my daughters left, she called to ask me why. I told her they are grown adults, and she would need to ask them. So she did.

One of my two daughters is a lesbian. When my mother asked the two girls, they told my mother that they would no longer be attending any family functions including Christmas and Thanksgiving. This created a shit show on an epic scale in the family chat. My mother tried to explain to my kids that their vote had nothing to do with them. My oldest explained that they exposed their character and they were raised to not engage with people that condone rape, lying, and cheating. She told my mother that your votes will directly impact our lives in a negative way and you guys did not care. You chose a politician's hollow words over your grandkids. There was more, and I'm paraphrasing.

My parents and siblings are furious. I think it's important to say that I pay for both of my kids’ college, their health insurance, car insurance, food, and gas. I pay for airfare when they come home. They don't work. My deal with them was if they went to school and got good grades, I would pay if I could. My mother wants me to cut them off until they come to Thanksgiving and Christmas. I said no. I have my kids’ back, and they are adults. I will not force them to make a choice they don't want to make.

My siblings are saying I'm an asshole and I'm dividing the family. I honestly never thought I'd be in this insane situation, but here we are.

So Reddit, AITAH?

Poppy: No.

Mickey: How is he dividing the family by…

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Supporting his daughters?

Poppy: Yeah, that's, he is not the asshole. His family is the asshole. Cut, telling him to cut his daughters off unless they come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. That's not the way to win somebody's love.

Mickey: Nuh-uh. That's dividing the family.

Poppy: Exactly.

Mickey: Yep. There's a good comment here that says in quotes, “If you won't let me do my emotional abuse, I'll just have to try to financially abuse you instead.”

Mickey: [chuckles] Yeah. Basically.

Pugly: Essentially.

Mickey: Yeah. And also, like, that's, I hate when people are, like, “Who I voted for has nothing to do with, like, how I feel about you.” I mean, what do you mean? What do you mean it doesn't have anything to do with how you feel about me or how you support me or whatever?

Pugly: Right.

Mickey: Like I don't understand that. Yeah, I don't think there's like a perfect person to vote for, but like, at the same time, it's like, hello, this person is literally, I mean, hi Trump uh listeners, but…

Pugly: Welcome to all our Trump listeners, as someone said in our last episode.

Mickey: We welcome all.

Pugly: We do not welcome all.

Poppy: I mean, this is unpopular opinion, but I also think like the daughters are being dramatic, like, you don't have to not come see like the entire family—including your parents—for the holidays because some people in your family voted the way you didn't want to. This is just me. If it was me, I would not, I would not do this behavior. I would not have this behavior.

Pugly: Yeah, despite my policy on our Trump listeners, I am actually going to see some Trump supporters in my own family this coming week, so… Yeah, I’m with you on that. Like, it doesn't have to tear your family apart, but I, I don't, like, I can see why it would for some people.

Poppy: True, like, okay, like, let's say a best friend or a significant other. These are, these are relationships where, like, maybe you do need to be on the same, like, common ground, and I could see it causing some turbulence between a friendship and a marriage or relationship. But your, your, like your grandparents, they already, like, they've never been woke. They have never been on the same page as you, you know? Like, let's just pump the brakes a little bit. Like, come on. Seriously.

Mickey: It's very uh can I say this—white American?

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Um, of them. Sorry.

Poppy: Entitlement.

Mickey: Yep.

Poppy: Entitlement.

Mickey: No, I just feel like, uh, like white Americans are just not used to having very different views from their parents’ generation on like a lot of these political things, and now that like being woke is like a, it's like a trend, I feel like they don't know how to act, like they don't know how to talk to their parents about it or their grandparents or like how to accept like, oh, grandma is not always going to be politically correct, like, and like, and sometimes she will be racist, and I have to deal with that, and I have to be her connection to the outside world where I'm like, “No Grandma, you can't say that.”

Pugly: Mmm…

Poppy: Mhm. Mhm.

Mickey: Like, that's important. I'm not saying everyone should, like, stay, being, stay close to their family if they're, like, you know, have terrible views or whatever—especially if those terrible views are about someone who's like you or, or you, you know, whatever, like, if a community you're in. But, like, at the same time, like, disconnecting is just like you're basically disconnecting from the responsibility as well. Like, you just, you just don't want to deal with it.

Poppy: Well, I mean, yeah, like you’re… you're hurting yourself too, you're not just hurting them. Like, this is probably like acting out, like wanting to just hurt them back for the disappointment that they've caused, but you're also hurting yourself because I don't know, I guess maybe with, if they're like, what, they're in undergrad, so like, just think about where your mindset was about your family 10 years ago.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Not the same as now.

Mickey: No.

Poppy: People's family values usually change with maturity because I mean, just like we were talking about the mom with dementia. I mean, you never know when that could happen to you, so…

Mickey: Yeah, family, family is a very special type of relationship. It's a…

Poppy: Yes.

Mickey: Like literally it's supposed to be ride or die. Obviously, obviously there's exceptions. There should be exceptions, but—

Poppy: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Mickey: But at the same time, it's like… It is a skill, it's a skill to know how to be in a family, to know how to like, okay, this is something we can never agree on, you know, we shouldn't talk about it, or, you know, grandma's kind of open to this kind of conversation, let me talk to her about it. Because you will need them, and they will need you.

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: Well, with what Poppy was saying earlier about how family dynamics change over time, I feel like even if they do cut them off at this moment in time, it doesn't mean that it's a permanent, you know, severance.

Poppy: Right.

Pugly: Like, they can always come back together later down the line if they decide to forgive or, you know, whatever.

Poppy: It might take four years.

Pugly: Might take four years.

Mickey: It might. I just fear that because they were the ones to do it and they're young, like the elders in their family, like their aunts, uncles, and grandma, grandma and grandpa, whatever, will like never forgive them. You know what I mean?

Pugly: That the, the family that's been cut off won't forgive the younger family members?

Mickey: Yeah, because they're like, “Who are you to like, cut me off?” I don't know. I'm just thinking of my family, I guess. They’re very prideful.

Pugly: That's a risk that they run, but, you know, it's just, that's the way families are sometimes. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Mickey: Yeah, that's true.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: Um, there is an edit. He says: Good lord, people. First of all, I am a father, not a mother. Second, I am of course backing my children up. I have told my kids we will be flying out to them for the holidays. Third, for those of you implying I can't or won't cut my family off, I have. I grew up in a severely physically and verbally abusive household. I cut them off when I was younger and went away to the military. I thought when I got older, I would be the bigger person and give my family another chance. That was obviously not the right move. I am backing my kids up and cutting the toxic family off.

As for those of you implying that my kids are “entitled brats” or anything similar, shame on you. You're judging my children based on this post. You don't know anything about the two grown women in question. Your knee jerk reaction is to immediately jump to name-calling and shunning. I guess that is not surprising based on who these comments are coming from. Educated women with opinions of their own and the ability to stand up for what they think is right is incredibly infuriating and scary to the same sort of people.

Once again, yes, I'm real, they are real, and this situation is real. If you don't believe it, I don't give a single fuck. You can move along. No need to even post your hate.

Mickey: I do love the dad.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: I was about to say I've never had anything like that.

Mickey: Never.

Pugly: Never that kind of support, you mean?

Poppy: Just like someone to defend. I don't think anyone's defended me like that, ever.

Mickey: Nope. Never. Never, ever, ever.

Poppy: I can't think of anything right now.

Pugly: You know, I can't, I can't, I don't even think I've had that.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: And of the three of us, I would suspect that maybe I would have the most vocally supportive parents just because—

Poppy: Yes, you know us, you know us.

Pugly: [laughs] Yeah.

Mickey: Good for them.

Pugly: Yeah. Good for them. That's, that's lucky that they have that.

Mickey: Yeah. I guess, well, you know, the context of them, the family being verbally and I think he said physically abusive too. Like, what was, I think that adds to things.

Poppy: Yeah, what was that?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah. It doesn't surprise me with the financial abuse as well.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Financial abuse? Did he say that?

Pugly: The wanting to hold money over, over the kids' heads for not coming, like, threatening them.

Poppy: Oh, oh. Yeah.

Pugly: None of their stuff would be taken care of if they didn't come. That's not the way, like you said, that's not the way to secure a relationship.

Mickey: Yeah. So many people from that generation think that fear is how to keep a family together. It's really weird.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: Fear is not motivating. I mean, that generation, like grandparents and then even like the generation of my parents, like this is, this is how my, you know, sometimes how my dad operates is, is by making me feel fear to do better.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Like, like what, like for school for example, you know? “If your grades aren't good, you're gonna not, you know, get into this program.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Some, just stuff like that. That's an easy example because I've heard it. It, it makes you actually resent somebody more than appreciate them trying to push you to do something.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Is it motivating for you?

Poppy: Whew! Thanksgiving is deep y'all!

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: No, it is not. It is not because I'm slightly stubborn, and I'm like, “Well, I don't want to, so…”

Pugly: Yeah. “Let me disprove your point.”

Mickey: Yeah, I think, I mean, but I think a lot of people are stubborn when they hear something like that. Like, because it's like, “Okay! I'm gonna do it!” Like, like, just be nice, like, be supportive, like, in a positive way, not in a negative way, you know?

Poppy: Mhm. I don't know.

Mickey: Like, “Oh, if you, Poppy, if you study, you know, a little bit harder, I know you can make it. I know you're going to get into this program of your dreams or whatever.” I don't know. That's what I would want to hear.

Poppy: Right. But, um—

Mickey: I've never heard that.

Poppy: It's tough love.

Pugly: What I always heard was, “As long as you're doing your best, that's all that matters.”

Mickey: Good for you.

Poppy: Yeah, I've never heard that.

Pugly: Even if I made it, like, a “D” on something, they would be like, “Well, did you do your best?” And I'd be like, “Well, I guess. I mean, I studied,” like, they would be like, yeah, “Okay, well then that’s all that matters.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: That must be so nice. Your, your parents, your parents sound, your parents are lovely. I mean, yes, it could also be frustrating. It seems like we're on two different ends of the spectrum, like complete opposite, so like, just being like in the middle, but I mean, it all comes from a place of love even if you don't realize it from…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: I think so many, so many problems in relationships are literally just okay, everyone cares about each other, and everyone loves each other, but we don't know how to show that.

Poppy: Mhm. Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Is that the theme of Thanksgiving?

Mickey: Uh, yeah.

Poppy: Yeah. Just suppress your feelings and eat your food. Except the one that that sister is bringing because…

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Or eat your feelings and suppress your food.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Alright, well, that sounds like a good way to end the episode, eh?

Mickey: Eh.

Poppy: Ahh… I hope everyone eats lots of turkey.

Mickey: We’re not making turkey in my house.

Poppy: We're not either.

Pugly: We're bringing ham to my Thanksgiving event as well, which I will be eating. A HoneyBaked Ham, so… I know y'all wouldn't enjoy that, but…

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: I don't partake in that. But, um, we do chickens, actually. We don't do turkey anymore.

Pugly: Really?

Mickey: Yes.

Pugly: What are those small ass birds called?

Mickey: Cornish hens.

Pugly: Yes, Cornish hens. I once had one of those at a Friendsgiving, and I was like, this is such a better idea than turkey.

Poppy: They're so cute.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Little babies.

Poppy: Aww!

Mickey: Oh, no, they're adults. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: We eat lamb, come on. And veal.

Poppy: I try my best not to eat veal. It makes me more sad—

Pugly: “I try my best.” [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Someone's force feeding you veal. [laughs]

Poppy: When it's battered and fried and sitting on top of a, you know, vodka sauce, you can't resist.

Mickey: Ooh, that sounds good.

Pugly: That does sound good.

Mickey: I can't say I've ever had that. I'm gonna go look for it now. [laughs] You're inspiring me.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Alright, so thank you listeners for tuning in.

Poppy: Thank you.

Mickey: I love a themed episode, so thank you Pugly for finding these themed stories.

Pugly: No problem.

Poppy: I may have lost my appetite, but I do love a good gossip.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Alright, we'll see you guys next time.

Poppy: Happy holidays.

Pugly: Happy holidays.

[Theme song]