[Theme song]

Mickey: Alright. Welcome back, girls.

Pugly: Hiya.

Poppy: Hi, thank you.

Mickey: This is Secondhand Confessions. Um… I'm… I forgot my name. What's my name? I'm Mickey. [laughs]

Pugly: I'm Pugly. It has been a while. And Poppy's with us as well.

Mickey: And Poppy!

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Poppy forgot to introduce herself. We've been on a small hiatus—

Poppy: But we're back and better than ever.

Mickey: Hell yeah. So today I think Pugly has some stories for us. I'm gonna read one… Alright, so, this is from, um, the subreddit r/BestofRedditorUpdates, and this person says: I (17F) have Celiac Disease. My new friend group (who are all between 16 and 22, girls and guys) think I'm anorexic and plan on having an intervention. Hm…

Pugly: Hm…

Mickey: That sucks.

Pugly: It does suck, yes.

Mickey: Okay, so there's some trigger warnings, discussion of eating disorders and poisoning. Okay… [laughs] Um, so this post was originally posted in July of 2015, and she says: A little background: My parents divorced when I was very young. My mom got me for most of the year, and my dad got me for the summer.

I hated going to my dad's house. Partially because he was very stubborn and rude and always had to do things his way, but also because every time I went to my dad's house, I got violently sick. Nausea, rashes, pain, muscle cramps, and then when I got older, I'd start missing my periods. (TMI?) I went to a doctor…

Uh, by the way, that comment, the TMI comment was not me. She said TMI. [laughs] Just wanna note. Okay, and then she goes on to say: I went to a doctor, but he said it was a psychosomatic problem related to stress and directed me to see a therapist. My dad didn't let me see a therapist because he thought it was total crap. My mom took me to one a few times, but by then, my symptoms had cleared up, so we couldn't tell if it helped at all.

One thing that really pissed me off was that my dad ate a lot of junk food and drank soda instead of water, and he mocked me mercilessly if I tried to eat healthy. I think it reminded him of my mom [laughs], because she's always been a bit of a health nut. I would sneak carrots into the house, and if he found them, he'd throw them out.

Wow, that is crazy. Can you imagine?

Poppy: No.

Mickey: Like you’re her dad.

Poppy: I feel like my dad was begging me to eat carrots.

Pugly: Yeah, really.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah.

Pugly: Mine literally put sugar on carrots so that we would eat them.

Mickey: [laughs] Mine were begging me not to drink soda and to drink water instead.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: Or like even juice, they would beg me to eat or drink juice instead of soda at least, and I wouldn't. Anyway, so, she continues to say: At my mom's house, I'd eat vegetables and organic chicken. Sometimes a food would make me feel sick, but I'd just stop eating that food and it was fine. I got into the habit of turning down any food offered to me because I didn't know if it was safe. I just explained it away as being a picky eater.

And then, when I was 16, a new girl moved to my school. I became friends with her, and after a couple of months, I noticed that she avoided all the same foods as me. I mentioned it in passing like, “Hey, isn't that weird?” and she got concerned and told me that she had Celiac Disease, and I should get myself checked out. I got checked, and sure enough, I had it. Everything suddenly made sense.

I was so excited to finally understand what was wrong that I told everybody I knew. I told all of the people who I thought were my friends. And they… didn't really react well. They acted fine at first, but I noticed that they were all doing the “slow fade” on me. I confronted my closest friend about it, and she said that they all thought I was faking it for attention.

Jeez, this is at 16 years old?

Pugly: I don't know, I guess.

Mickey: Yeah, she said she was 16, but, like—

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: I don't know, I guess people are mean in high school.

Pugly: Yeah. I mean, people can be cruel for no reason.

Mickey: Yeah. So they thought she was faking it, and: They'd only heard about gluten-free diets as a stupid fad. I broke down crying and told her all about how horrible I felt when I had to go to my dad's house and how I couldn't believe that she didn't believe me, and she was horrified. She turned around and became my biggest supporter. She talked to the others, but they still thought I was full of shit and feeding her lies, so we decided it was best to break it off with them.

That's a good friend.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: She says: My birthday is in August, so I had two more summers with my dad left to go to go through after I found out. He took the revelation about my disease even worse than my ex-friends. He would scream that I thought I was better than him and I was making up medical problems because I wanted to be special, and that he wouldn't put up with that shit. I offered to take him with me to the doctor, but he said that doctors are scam artists, and he didn't believe anything they said. It was horrible. It got to the point where he started sabotaging my food and cursing at me when I got sick.

So, I've gotten pretty wary about telling people about the disease. Between my personal experiences and hearing people make fun of gluten-free food on TV and the internet, I've decided I'm not comfortable with telling new people. I know that's cowardly, but I'm so afraid of what people will think of me.

This is my last summer with my dad, and it's the last summer with my dad. He can rot in hell for all I care; he treats me like shit. I've only got to tough it out for another few weeks; that's not my problem. I can already hear your advice about leaving my dad's house or calling CPS, and respectfully, I've made my decision that it's easier just to stay for the next three weeks and then leave forever. Please don't focus on that part.

This is the problem I need help with: My best friend and I have made a new group of friends. They're great people. Really fun. We play role-playing games every weekend and have been hanging out since May. There’s 10 or 11 of them, depending on whether you count this guy who doesn't regularly attend games.

My best friend approached me yesterday and told me that the rest of the group has been talking behind my back. They've put together the fact that I constantly turn down food and that I'm very picky about what I eat, and that I've been getting thinner and acting sick (because I've been living with my dad), and come to the conclusion that I have anorexia. They're planning on staging an intervention for me next weekend.

Guys, I don't know what to do. This is such an awkward situation. I know I should tell them, but I'm so scared they're going to reject me. They've already got this idea in their heads about what's wrong. At this point, I'm afraid they'll think I'm just making excuses. And I've been burned before. I lost a ton of friends by telling them about my disease. Yeah, they were dicks, but it fucking hurt. How do I do this? How do I explain it so they'll believe me? I can't handle any more people calling me a liar. I'll have a mental breakdown. This disease has ruined my life in so many ways. I just wanted to have this one part of my life separate from that. Please, Reddit, give me advice.

Pugly: This is a tough one because I didn't realize how stigmatized Celiac Disease was prior to reading this. I mean, I guess maybe in that time frame of the 2015, like it was a little more…

Poppy: That's what I was gonna say. 2015 is maybe different than now.

Pugly: Yeah. It's more accepted now.

Poppy: There's nothing to be embarrassed about, sweetie. You have tummy issues. That's okay.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Only hot girls have tummy issues.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: Like, I mean, I don't know, I feel like I would immediately tell them and shut down the anorexia thing. Unless, unless she might be a little anorexic, we don't know.

Mickey: Maybe.

Pugly: Maybe. I mean, it sounds like she's just rejected the foods that have caused her issues. But… At least that's the story that we're getting here.

Mickey: Mhm. I wonder, like if, I mean, I mean, she's really young; she's 17, and I think she thinks that her old friend group rejected her because she has Celiac’s, but they just rejected her because they're dicks.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: And like, they, they thought she was making up that she had food sensitivities, so it wouldn't matter what she said. They're just dicks. So, like, if she really likes these friends, and it seems like they're concerned about her, I, I don't know about an intervention for anorexia. I don't know if that's a good idea [laughs]. But it seems like they're concerned about her, and they're young, maybe they're a little dumb. So I would, like you said, I would just go ahead and tell them.

Pugly: Yeah. Take the risk.

Mickey: “You guys know, like this is…” Yeah. “This is why I don't eat all this food.”

Poppy: Shame on her dad for making her an insecure person when that should be someone who builds her up.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: Not that we all don't have daddy issues but, you know.

Mickey: No, I, I couldn't believe reading that. Like, I'm like, why did her mom have a child with that man?

Poppy: Maybe she didn't know what kind of man he was until they had kids.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Or they didn't even plan the pregnancy.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: That too.

Mickey: She said, um, her parents divorced when she was very young. So… And then they immediately decided her dad would just get her for the summer, so, like, yeah…

Pugly: Well, that, that sucked though—the part that she added about not wanting people to focus on the part about her dad being sort of, not even neglectful but almost even abusive in the sense of like encouraging or discouraging her from eating healthy foods and restricting her diet to things that are unhealthy.

Mickey: Yeah. And she, she said, I think that he would purposefully give her things, right?

Poppy: Or ruin them. He would like mess with it.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: Poor thing.

Mickey: Yeah. It says, um, it got to the point where he started sabotaging my food and cursing at me when I got sick. That's rough. I'm never gonna complain about my dad again. [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: I love my dad. I love you, Dad.

Pugly: You don't have daddy issues though. You're one of the few.

Mickey: Yeah… Meh, I don't know. I think I do, they're just not as big as my mommy issues. [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] We can come back to that another day.

Poppy: How lucky are people who don't have either of those?

Pugly: Maybe they're just orphans.

Mickey: Orphans. Yeah! [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs] That's another problem.

Mickey: [laughs] I think having parents means you have parent issues, right?

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Like even someone like I, I'm thinking of… What was that show? It was like a Reese Witherspoon show. Um, the lady that was in Scandal was in it. Kerry Washington. Is that her name?

Poppy: Oh.

Mickey: And it was her and her daughter, and they were really close. She seems like she's like a really great mom. I think single moms are probably, like, really good parents—or single parents in general, sorry. But, like, even them, like, if they don't do a good job of, like, making sure they have a social life, I feel like—

Poppy: Yeah, but if you're a child to a single mom, then you automatically have daddy issues.

Mickey: Mhm. That's true.

Poppy: Like that's, that's it. You've been served. Daddy issues.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: So true.

Poppy: I don't know. Would you rather your… Okay, so like, think about it on the opposite end. Like this guy is making fun of his daughter for being too skinny and not eating and being too healthy. But it sucks even more… Well, I don't know, I can't relate to the being too skinny, making, being made fun of for being too skinny.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Think about the other side, with all the girls that have to deal with their dads like making fun of them for eating too much or not putting the food down or, you know, getting fluffy.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: It's, it sucks.

Mickey: It really does. I think he is just an asshole. Maybe like part of it, like the tiny bit, like, “Eat more” is like, concern, but, you know, he stops there and starts making fun of her and, you know, offers her junk food. Like come on… Like junk food isn't the devil, but it's all you eat? And you have a child? Like come on.

Poppy: Yeah. Are there any updates? Like, did, did somebody say something to her?

Mickey: Yes. So…

Pugly: There's also a comment though. So someone said, um, next RP session, I guess role-playing session, ask if you can talk to everyone before you start and say something like this: I want you all to know that I really value your friendship, so I want to share something important with you.

Roughly two years ago, I was diagnosed with Celiac Disease, which is an autoimmune disorder that causes my body to react negatively to gluten. Unfortunately, my father is unable to properly accommodate me, so you may have noticed that I've been suffering some symptoms from my illness, which include weight loss. Please respect that this is something I prefer not to draw attention to in public settings or around people I am not close with.

If you want more information about Celiac, there are a bunch of useful websites, and I can answer any questions you may have.

What do you think about that response? Is that how you would frame?

Mickey: I think that ChatGPT wrote that. [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: This was in 2015 though.

Mickey: Oh! [laughs] Every time somebody gives good advice, it's like, like or a good thing, a good way to communicate something on Reddit, I'm like, this is a great way to communicate it. Like you said exactly. You hit all the points. But it sounds like a robot! [laughs] Yeah…

Pugly: I don't even know. Was that response perfect? Like, do you think she should address the anorexia concerns and say, like, outright, like, no, I do not have—

Mickey: No, like, they didn't, they didn't tell her they were gonna do it, so no harm, no foul. I think she should just be like, “Hey, you guys,”—I think she should just complain about her dad, honestly.

Pugly: Mm.

Mickey: That's what I would do.

Pugly: That's what friendships are for anyway.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Bitching about your dads.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: She's still more embarrassed to share that she has Celiac Disease than people assuming that she's anorexic. Like, she's more afraid to tell them the truth about being, that having Celiac Disease than being embarrassed about being called anorexic.

Mickey: Yeah. It's kind of a big deal, now that you point that out. Why, why do you think that is? Do you think it's because she actually experienced like that when she was younger and like, it stuck with her how terrible she felt when people made fun of her?

Pugly: It sounds like she's reliving that experience of like her friends abandoning her after that first time she disclosed her…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Diagnosis.

Mickey: Versus if they're doing an intervention for her being anorexic, it's like they're not abandoning her; it's the opposite of abandonment.

Poppy: Girls are mean.

Pugly: Girls are mean.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Anyway, the update. Yeah, sorry.

Mickey: Alright. So… So she updated six days later. Um, and she said: Hey guys, thank you for all your help. The intervention was yesterday, and I figured you guys would want to know how everything went.

Um… And then she goes, she details it to say: A few hours before the game started, one of my friends (let's call him Zach) texted me asking to come to his house (he hosts the games), uh, early because he wanted to discuss [gaming terms that will be nonsense to most of you guys]. I figured this was probably the intervention and texted my best friend. (I think there was some confusion in the last post. This is the friend who was with my other friend group who I poured my heart out to; then she followed me to the new group. Let's call her Laura.) Um, I texted her to ask if she'd been invited to. She hadn't, so I asked her to come with me.

Before I went to his house, I did something a little cheeky inspired by one of the comments on the last post. I went and picked up some gluten-free Chinese food from a place I frequent. They have this amazing vegetable fried rice that I've fallen in love with. They're really careful about cross-contamination. I've been eating there for years and never gotten sick. I brought the food with me to Zach's house, along with Laura and my notebooks and dice for role-playing.

Zach seemed really taken aback that Laura was there. I asked him if he had a problem with it, because if we were going to talk about [complicated gaming things], then she should be part of the conversation because of [qualifications] (ugh, I'm really sorry, I'm trying not to drop a crap-ton of gaming jargon on y'all).

Lol, we don't need to know. Um, he awkwardly said that it was fine. Then I said something like, “Is it alright if I eat something while we do this? I missed lunch and I'm really hungry,” and pulled out the Chinese food. He said it was fine but seemed kind of alarmed, like I was freaking him out.

I started eating, and he started his pitch. He said to me, “I didn't actually call you here to talk about gaming. Me and some of the others have noticed some things recently that we're concerned about, and they elected me to talk to you about it.”

I said, “Okay…”

He listed off a bunch of things that I've been doing that made them worry about me. The way they never saw me eat anything, that I always seemed sick and was getting thinner, the fact that I always seemed uncomfortable and nervous when the topic of food came up, that I turned down everything offered to me, and then he finally dropped the bombshell: “Michael's older sister is anorexic, and she acts a lot like you do. We think you might be anorexic.”

I swallowed my food and tried not to look nervous. “I'm not,” I told him.

He started talking about how nobody thinks they're anorexic, but there's clearly something going on with me, and he started just rambling, so I cut him off.

Pugly: That's actually—just to clarify, in the new DSM or in the latest DSM, you can have an awareness of your… or insight into your own diagnosis and still be anorexic.

Poppy: Interesting.

Mickey: Yeah, I didn't, I never thought that you didn't have to know.

Pugly: I think a lot of times that is the case. But yeah, there's, I guess a growing number of cases where there is insight. But anyway, sorry to interrupt.

Poppy: I do have a question.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: Um, if someone, okay, let's say someone's self-aware that they're um anorexic, uh, does that also mean that they have body dysmorphia?

Pugly: No, those are separate.

Poppy: Hm…

Pugly: Body dysmorphia is like usually a fixation on a very specific part of the body, like the nose or some element of the face, like the cheek or something and thinking that that's like out of proportion or discolored or, you know, disfigured in some way, whereas anorexia is restrictive eating.

Mickey: So, anorexia is a behavior and body dysmorphia is a perception.

Pugly: Although it can lead to behaviors of like checking the mirror a lot.

Mickey: Yeah, but like you can, you can have body dysmorphia and think you're like, let's say bigger than you are and that causes you or you react by becoming anorexic?

Poppy: Sometimes people, like, with anorexia and I'm just, I guess I'm basing this off of like, stories or movies, I don't know, but I thought like an anorexic person looks into the mirror and thinks that they're like, huge.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: And so that's why they're anorexic.

Pugly: I think that would still, yeah, I think that would still just still be under the umbrella of the anorexia, but I could be wrong. Maybe it is body dysmorphia with a fixation specifically on the stomach area, although that just seems redundant to have that diagnosis and then also anorexia. But I don't know. I'm not—eating disorders are like a very specialist kind of area.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. Alright, so, um, um she said: He started rambling, so I cut him off.

“I do have a problem. It's not anorexia. Can I talk?”

[laughs] She said, “Can I talk? Can you, can you shut up?”

Pugly: Can you just shut up for me? Give me a minute?

Mickey: Ahh… He reluctantly agreed. I think he was afraid I was going to say that I was too fat and my problem was that I needed to lose weight or something. Like, he really got committed to the idea that I was anorexic.

I'm gonna try to paraphrase what I said here because I was very proud of myself for it. “I know I'm losing weight in an unhealthy way, but it's not on purpose. I have a disease that means I can't eat grains like wheat, barley, and rye. When I do, I get very sick, and my body starts ripping up my stomach, and I can't digest much of anything—even things that don't have those grains in them. It's not just an allergy. It does serious long-term damage to me. If I ate a piece of bread, I would break out in rashes. I'd start throwing up, and I might get stuff that seems unrelated like horrible muscle cramps. When I turn down food, it's because you guys offer me stuff like Doritos and PB&Js. If I ate that stuff, it would make me violently ill. I turn it down to keep from making my health problems even worse. And the reason my symptoms have been popping up and I've been getting sick and losing weight is that right now, I'm living in a family situation where I'm forced to eat the foods that my body reacts badly to. When I first met you guys, I was living with my mom, and she accommodated me really well. But right now, I'm living with my dad, and he sabotages my food because he thinks I'm making my disease up and that my doctor is a fraud.”

Zach took out actual notecards and looked through them. [laughs] He literally had a script for the intervention.

Poppy: Oh my God.

Mickey: This is, this is so cute. Is this like a, is it 2015? She was 17, so like, she's almost our age, right?

Poppy: No, in 2015, we were not 17.

Mickey: We were like 19. Okay.

So he took out the actual notecards and looked through them. He literally had a script for the intervention. That's what I get for hanging out with the kind of dramatic people who play tabletop RPGs, I guess. He was quiet for a really long time. Then he had a few questions.

“But then why do you turn down like Coke?”

Uh, she says, “Because Coke is nasty, but I didn’t want to complain and make you guys buy root beer just for me.”

The second question was, “Why didn't you just tell us this stuff?”

The girl says, Laura took this one and explained what happened with our last friend group.

His third question was, “Okay, so like, what would I probably have in the house right now that you’d be willing to eat in front of me?”

I wanted to face palm at this one. I asked if he was serious. He was. [laughs]

Pugly: Didn't she already bring the Chinese food?

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

She said, “I don't know. Have you got celery?”

He shook his head.

She said, “Yogurt?”

Nope.

“An apple?”

Nope.

Pugly: What?

Mickey: “Seriously?”

He nodded.

“Have you got some freaking popcorn? Like air-popped popcorn?”

That he did have. So I ate some popcorn in front of him, and he finally seemed to accept what I was saying.

Pugly: That ain't the food that would convince me because that's not very filling at all.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: But whatever.

Mickey: He awkwardly changed the subject to gaming things, and we talked about that until the rest of the group started to show up.

When Michael got there, Zach took him aside and started talking to him in a way that I guess they thought was subtle? They kept looking over at me, and they weren't keeping their voices down really well. Michael asked if I seemed defensive, and Zach shrugged and said, “Not really.”

I pointedly ate popcorn for the rest of the game. Michael texted me after the game and apologized for assuming that I was anorexic and asked what snacks they could put out for me. I actually cried a little bit. I was worried about getting kicked out, but they moved immediately to accommodating me. They're nice people.

So everything worked out fine. Sorry for the anti-climax. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: That's it?

Mickey: That's it! It really was an anti-climax.

Poppy: Wow.

Pugly: Well, that was a cute story.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: I like that her friendships are improving.

Mickey: Oh yeah. And it's nice that she has that girl, uh, Lauren, Laura, whatever her name is—

Pugly: Yeah, Laura.

Mickey: —who's like part of that past friend group but stayed with her. She stuck with her and kind of showed her like, what loyalty is and what like a true friend is.

Poppy: If those people knew that they were good, like good friends, why didn't one of them just ask Laura like, “Hey, you know, is she okay?”

Mickey: I don't know.

Poppy: Why did you have to go from zero to intervention?

Pugly: [laughs] Yeah… Maybe Laura wasn't sure.

Poppy: True.

Mickey: I don't think they asked Laura.

Pugly: Oh, maybe they didn't. I didn't, I didn't really follow fully the story, but she may not have included that detail in there. She may not know if they asked Laura.

Mickey: No, I really think they didn't ask Laura.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: They didn't ask her.

Mickey: Yeah. I think they, like… She's like, this is mainly her friend group and Laura is, like, joining her in the friend group.

Poppy: I see.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Hm…

Mickey: But…

Pugly: Ha! Someone made the same point that I made in the comments.

Mickey: What?

Pugly: They said, “Yay. Great job. It's so funny that they made you eat popcorn even though you'd been eating takeout. They do sound very sweet and well-meaning, if a bit presumptuous and dramatic.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I think that's a pretty spot-on comment.

Mickey: Yeah. I, I'm still not over her dad. I'm still not over her dad being such a cruel guy.

Poppy: He wouldn't even buy her the food. He wouldn't even buy her the food that she needed. He would just watch her suffer.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah. That's really sad. Like her, her teenage friends are nicer, like, are kinder to her than her dad. Or more considerate.

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah, I wondered if there was like, a socioeconomic kind of reasons for maybe why he's choosing the foods he's going towards, but—

Mickey: I mean, may, maybe there is, but, like, that's not an excuse for making fun of her or, like, being, like, invalidating her or being, like, “You're crazy.” [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: “The doctor’s a liar.”

Mickey: Yeah. I don't know, when you get in that headspace, like, when people convince you of, or, like, the world around you has convinced you that, like, everything is fake and, like, you know, everything is trying to kill you and, like, you should just eat the junk food or whatever… Is it her dad's fault at that point?

Pugly: That he's been corrupted?

Mickey: Yeah. Like that he, like, thinks this way. Maybe he's just too dumb.

Poppy: But a good dad could have his own beliefs but still, like, not treat his daughter like that, no matter what.

Mickey: That's very true.

Pugly: Yeah. I hope the situation with the dad is rectified now, whether that is, whether for the best, if it means, like, her just leaving that situation entirely, which it sounds like was the plan or whatever. But yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: I bet her dad loves Donald Trump.

Pugly: I know. I was thinking that too. I didn't want to say it out loud because I didn't want to get political here. But, yeah, the conspiracy theories galore.

Mickey: I don't, I mean, I don't, I would bet, like, everything I own on that. I don't think that's a theory. That's like a surety.

Pugly: I'm talking about his conspiracy theories.

Mickey: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Yes, yes, yes.

Pugly: Yeah. Definitely, we got a Trump voter on our hands.

Mickey: Uh huh.

Pugly: [sighs]

Mickey: Much love to our, um—

Pugly: No!

Mickey: —supporters…

Pugly: No love.

Mickey: You are welcome. [laughs] All are welcome.

Pugly: We do not have unconditional love for everybody.

Mickey: Well, send in your confessions. We'd love to hear them.

Pugly: Do send your confessions in. If you voted for Trump, send that confession in. We'd love to hear it.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Although you're probably not listening anymore because we just expressed some disgust for you.

Mickey: I didn't express—

Pugly: I did.

Mickey: —anything. I didn’t say shit.

Poppy: I didn't say anything.

Pugly: Pugly has disgust for you if you voted for Trump.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: It's now been solidified.

Mickey: Pugly is a never Trumper.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Um, we do have another story here. Would we like to take this one on?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: This one is: “My (44F) disabled husband (who's 48M) wants me to have an open pass in our marriage now. Any advice?” This was posted this year in September in the r/relationship_advice subreddit. You guys ready to dive in?

Mickey: I just wanna make sure I heard this right. He wants her to have an open pass?

Pugly: Yes, he is disabled, and he wants her to have an open pass in their marriage.

Poppy: Oh, I didn't hear the disabled part. See everything you just said minus the disabled part, I was like—

Mickey: Yeah. Icky.

Pugly: Yeah, it's giving, um, what is it called when they, when they have a kink for like watching your partner have sex with someone else?

Poppy: Ah, that's so bad.

Pugly: I forget the name of it. But yeah, that. It's giving that.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Cuckolding?

Pugly: Yes, cuckolding

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah, it's giving cuckold energy—without the disabled element.

Poppy: A little cuckaloni.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] A cuckaloni!

Poppy: Oh God. But not this, it's not this. He's trying to, he's trying… Okay, what kind of disabled? Is he in a wheelchair? Do things—

Mickey: Let's find out. [laughs]

Poppy: Okay.

Pugly: Alright, let's dive in. My husband and I have been together for a decade. Shortly before we got married seven years ago, he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. In the years since, there has been a slow decline in his fine motor skills, vision, and strength in his legs. In the last two years, these things have added up and made our sex life decline. This doesn't bother me, as I know it is something neither of us can control.

I didn't realize just how much it was starting to bother him until this past weekend. He informed me that he wants me to date and sleep with whomever I wish. That as long as I am in our bed at night, am honest with him and protect myself, he is okay with it. Needless to say, I am shocked. I never thought about this situation, and I don't know what to do or think. I've tried to reassure him that I want him, not some stranger I just met. I'm not sure what to do. Does anyone have any ideas?

Mickey: Aww…

Poppy: I do.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: I do have an idea.

Mickey: [laughs] Immediately. She was ready. Her hand was raised!

Poppy: No, she should not do it. She should not do it. There are things that you can purchase that will be delivered to your front door with all the privacy that you need. You do not need another human for certain things.

Pugly: She can handle herself.

Poppy: Yes!

Mickey: Mhm. And he can even like partake.

Pugly: He can help in his own capacity.

Poppy: He can watch. He can watch if he wants.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: He can cuckold.

Poppy: He can…

Mickey: [laughs] No, that's exactly not what we're saying!

Pugly: He can cuckold the masturbation session.

Mickey: Oh! [laughs] Oh no, we're going to hell.

Poppy: I'm not.

Pugly: I'm not.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Mickey's laughing because she knows I'm going straight to hell.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: That’s not why she's laughing.

Mickey: Mmm… We're all going to hell, ladies.

Pugly: Well I'll see y’all there.

Poppy: Craig is coming too!

Mickey: Craig! [laughs]

Pugly: For those that don't know, Craig is our, uh, recording software that we use to record these sessions here on Secondhand Confessions.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: I love when you throw the name out.

Pugly: I just gotta throw it out because I said sessions, and I wanted it to rhyme, so…

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Nice. What do you guys think? You think that she should do it? Is that a nice offer?

Mickey: I think that she should… I think she should tell him that that's very thoughtful of him that he's considering her, and it's, like, it makes her feel really nice that he's thinking about her and her pleasure… I mean, obviously she hasn't even said what she wants, first of all. She didn't say in the post what she wants.

Pugly: Yeah, she's not coming to him saying, “Hey, I'm begging to get it on with someone else.”

Mickey: No. But like… Did the idea spark a thought in her mind, like, maybe, you know, maybe she does want that, and if he really is okay with it, cool, maybe they can figure something out. But me as like a… what I would do is exactly what you just said, um, Poppy. [chuckles] Um, but yeah, I would tell him that's very thoughtful that you're thinking of me, but, you know, you're really the only person who turns me on like… Or, you're the only—okay, sorry.

Pugly: Yeah, let’s back up.

Mickey: [laughs] Let’s not lie. You're the only person I want to be intimate with, and I think we can spice things up. Um, but I'll, I'll have that on the back-burner. If I ever feel that way, I'll come back to you and let you know. But like, I think we should just spice things up, like in a different way, like try something new.

Poppy: Right. He's probably in a little mental block now. Like, you know, both brains are not meeting up with each other, and—

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: I'm trying to keep it PG.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: We know what you mean.

Poppy: She’s her eyes in a secondhand embarrassment, actually. It's what this place should be called.

Mickey: Yes. [laughs] Yeah.

Poppy: Most of the time with, with the things that these people wanna put out on the internet.

Mickey: [sighs] I mean, listen. Maybe in, like, I don't know, five years or something, she changes her mind and she's like, you know, I'm really, it's really dry up here. What do you guys think she should do then?

Poppy: No.

Mickey: ‘Til death do us part?

Poppy: Yes.

Pugly: Or divorce do us part.

Mickey: Ooh, that's rough.

Poppy: Yeah, but she should never leave him in that state.

Mickey: As he's dying.

Pugly: She shouldn't leave him in that state, you say?

Poppy: No. If he is still good to her, if he's still mentally there and good to her, there is no reason for her to betray him like that.

Pugly: But what if she's just not being fulfilled?

Poppy: There are other ways…

Pugly: Not sexually. I mean, like, generally in the relationship.

Poppy: Then she should divorce him—I don't know, this is too hard. [laughs] I don't know.

Mickey: What do you? Okay, let me look up over time what it looks like because I think—

Pugly: It's progressive.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I did get a ChatGPT definition of MS, and it says multiple sclerosis is a chronic autoimmune disease that affects the central nervous system, which includes the brain and spinal cord. In MS, the immune system mistakenly attacks the protective covering of nerve fibers known as myelin. This damage disrupts the communication between the brain and the rest of the body leading to a wide range of neurological symptoms. And I don't have—

Mickey: Okay, what’s the prognosis over time?

Pugly: Let me, let me quickly get that answer for you.

Mickey: [laughs] Sorry.

Poppy: There are great drugs out these days that can really slow it down though.

Pugly: Really?

Mickey: I feel like you're about to say like Viagra. [laughs]

Pugly: Um, it's a chronic unpredictable disease with a wide range of long-term outcomes. Prognosis varies significantly from person to person and depends on factors like the type of MS, age at onset, initial symptoms, treatment options, and the individual's response to treatment. Here's a breakdown of some of the general trends in MS prognosis. There are types of MS and their course, which we don't need to get into.

Long-term disability and quality of life… Over the course of the disease, many individuals experience progressive physical disability. However, some people retain relatively good function with only minor disability, 15 to 20 years after diagnosis, while others may require assistive devices within that time frame.

Um, there’s also cognitive impairments and mental health, uh, considerations to, um, factor into this. There's also factors associated with better prognosis include early diagnosis and treatment, younger age at onset—huh, interesting. I would have thought that would be the opposite.

Mickey: Maybe, maybe younger age onset means you have a milder form.

Pugly: Maybe. It says it's associated with a slower progression. Um, less frequent relapses and minimal disability early on are also factors associated with better prognosis.

Mickey: So, okay, like we don't really know basically is the answer.

Pugly: The life expectancy for people with MS is about 7-14 years shorter than the general population.

Mickey: Oh… That's not as short as I would have thought.

Pugly: Yeah, I would have thought it would be shorter. Is that what you're saying?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: So, like, okay…

Pugly: 14 years though. That is a lot, actually.

Mickey: Yeah, but I thought it would be, like, 30 years or something.

Pugly: Okay. I don't know what I thought it would be, actually.

Mickey: Okay. So not saying I would leave him. Obviously, I'm not married, so I have no idea what that's like. Um, but like, you know. What if the last like 20-30 years of your life, you don't really fully have a companion there? I'm not, let's just pretend it's not MS, let's pretend it's somebody who's like disabled. Like let's, I don't know Alzheimer's—not fully there. You're just their caretaker.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Even in that case, Poppy, you wouldn't, like, get a divorce but still take care of them? Like, still be their caretaker?

Poppy: But there's a difference because they're not fully mentally there.

Mickey: Yeah, that's a difference.

Poppy: When someone is, is mentally, like, understands everything that's going on and can feel the betrayal, that's when it matters.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Well, it does say that cognitive impairments can play a role, such as memory issues, attention deficits, and slowed processing speed.

Mickey: Well, but that's not the same.

Poppy: He could have progressed that way, unfortunately. He could have progressed that way. But right now, he seems okay with me if he's giving her a hall pass.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Maybe, but maybe this is part of the cognition declining.

Mickey: [laughs] No, I think it's very sweet of him to, to think of her.

Pugly: I think it, it's, yeah, it's a sacrifice that he doesn't need to make. Like, I don't even know why he proposed it because… is she saying she's not being fulfilled, or is he just projecting that onto her?

Mickey: She, I don't think she, she said, she didn't say that at least, but I think it's kind of like what Poppy was saying of maybe it's getting to him or maybe he's feeling bad about his position.

Pugly: Like the change in their sex life?

Mickey: Mhm, and like he wants, you know, he feels like he promised her a full marriage, and he, he's not giving her a part of that. So maybe—

Pugly: But that's what marriage is—this unpredictability of like, you know, random shit happening to both of you and you have to navigate it together.

Mickey: You know, but what is the percentage of like men that leave their wives when they get cancer?

Pugly: True. Let me ask ChatGPT.

Poppy: Wow. Percent of men leaving their wives when the man gets cancer?

Mickey: No, when the woman gets cancer.

Poppy: No!

Mickey: It's like, um, a high number.

Pugly: 21% when the wife was the patient compared to 3% when the husband was the patient.

Mickey: Can you believe?

Pugly: Can you believe? Almost a quarter of marriages end when the wife gets, uh, cancer.

Mickey: Yeah. Wow. Like, and it's, and it's seven times, seven times more likely for the man to leave the woman when she gets sick versus the woman leaving the man. I think it's like, that's the only thing that's missing for me is that she never said what she wants.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: And she never said what, if she's ever mentioned to him, like—

Pugly: Well, she did say, she did say. She said, um, I don't know what to do or think; I've tried to reassure him that I want him, not some stranger I just met.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: But what if she meets somebody—

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: —that's not a stranger?

Mickey: What if you get a boyfriend?

Poppy: Or someone they know.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Complicates the picture.

Mickey: Like, yeah. But okay, okay. Like, how is this different from, like, having an open marriage?

Pugly: Mhm. Because he's not, he's not partaking in it.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: No, yeah. But an open marriage doesn't necessarily mean that you partake in both of y'all's… Like, it doesn't mean both of them have to partake.

Poppy: I don’t agree with any of it.

Pugly: I think if only one person gets to open the marriage—yeah, I'm not, personally, I don't think I could do an open relationship at all. But if only one person gets that benefit, then that's fucked up.

Poppy: And then if you get the benefit one time, it's called a hall pass.

Mickey: [laughs] Wait. So is it a one time that he's, he's offering her or—

Poppy: He never said hall—or, she never said hall pass. I’m just…

Pugly: An “open pass” is what she described it as.

Mickey: As in like—

Poppy: Oh, so a season pass.

Pugly: A season pass. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Oh yeah. Space Mountain.

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Ooh, that's unfortunate. I hope he feels better.

Pugly: He says he wants her to date and sleep with whomever I wish. So she gets to go on dates too? What the hell? This guy is really setting himself like up in a shitty situation.

Poppy: What if he wants out?

Pugly: Maybe.

Mickey: Ooh.

Pugly: Maybe this is his way, but why would he?

Mickey: That's not something we considered.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: No man in love is gonna give up his woman like that. Dates?!

Pugly: Dates? Really.

Mickey: So he is a cuck—I'm just kidding. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: I'm so sorry, God. I’m so sorry. Don't take me too serious. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah. Well, the best and top comments were: “Couples therapy. I can only assume he may be coping with the idea that he can't provide to you what he thinks you may be needing or maybe what he wishes he could give you.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Then someone says: “Just tell him that you are already sleeping with whoever you wish.”

Mickey: Ooh. [laughs]

Poppy: No!

Pugly: As in, you know, him.

Poppy: Oh!

Pugly: It took y'all a second, so…

Mickey: I mean, I didn't get there by myself. You had to literally explain it. [laughs] I was like, why would you trick him like that?

Pugly: Yeah, the expression gave away that I was like I needed to, to come in, tag team this.

Mickey: [laughs] To rescue me? Help, rescue me. Um, I thought they were trying to say like, oh yeah, just tell him you're already doing that, and then whatever his reaction is, you can be, like, “See? You wouldn't like it.”

Pugly: Oh, that's a good one too. I like that.

Poppy: What if he's like, “Aww, good for you.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: No, because he didn't approve of it before. Why would that be his reaction?

Mickey: Immediately divorce.

Pugly: Yeah, really. Immediate divorce.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. We've talked about, we've talked about jealousy before, and how… I, there is such a thing as a healthy amount of jealousy.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. Now, people who are, you know, into the whole polycule, open relationship thing, polyamory, probably would say that maybe jealousy is not good. But I, you know, I believe as someone who is a… What is it called? Monogamous [laughs] Monogamous person, I believe, like, that's just the nature of monogamous relationships is there should be a small healthy amount of jealousy.

Pugly: Well, let me just ask those polyamorous people: Are they cuckolding their partners’ relations with other people or, uh—

Mickey: Ooh.

Pugly: Yeah, if they're not jealous, why do they not want to see it?

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: They have some level of jealousy. Everybody does.

Mickey: Yeah. I don't know because I think a—I think a lot of people are, are… I think you mentioned this, like, um, they're selfish when they do polyamory. Like, I wanna sleep around but not you, like, when you do it, it's like, ooh, I don't like that.

Pugly: Mhm. Yeah, I would consider that to be jealousy.

Mickey: Yes.

Poppy: Yeah, there's no way you can't feel even just an ounce of jealousy.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: It's human.

Mickey: Yeah. Exactly.

Poppy: Yeah. Well…

Mickey: It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and maybe Steve and maybe also…

Poppy: That was cute though—Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Steve.

Mickey: [laughs] And maybe Steve.

Poppy: I like that.

Mickey: Steve is for Adam, but not for Eve.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: And David and Goliath.

Mickey: Wow. [laughs]

Pugly: We're just bringing the Bible in here.

Mickey: Very biblical.

Pugly: Very biblical, uh, polycule.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] I mean, it was kind of a polycule back then. There was like, a few people on earth. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. I mean, no, even if you don't believe in creationism at all and you believe in evolution, like, at some point there was only like a couple of humans on earth.

Pugly: Mhm. But not in the biblical times, I don't think.

Mickey: I mean, maybe they were the same times, like… I had an argument with my ex about this, actually, that I believe in both creationism and evolution. And he was like, “How, how can you possibly believe in both of those things?” And I was like, “I don't know, I just do, like, I don't, I don't understand.”

Pugly: And I bet he was like, “Occam's razor.”

Mickey: I think he actually, like, literally, I think he literally said Occam's razor.

Pugly: I bet he did. I bet he did because he loves all the razors.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: What is that?

Pugly: It's like, whatever theory has the least stipulations to it or like, has the least, um, arguments to it is the theory you should select when you have competing theories. So, like, basically the simplest theory is the one that should prevail.

Mickey: I mean, he's, he said Occam’s razor about something, but I don't think it was that specific argument. But that argument, I think he said, like, we literally have evidence of evolution. And I was like, I don't, didn't say I don't believe in evolution. I just…

Pugly: Yeah, you said, you literally said you believe in it.

Mickey: Yuh. He's like, “You can't possibly believe in both.” I'm like, “Well, I do.” [laughs] Mmm… There are problems in his brain.

Poppy: Many.

Pugly: There are problems in his brain.

Mickey: Worms.

Poppy: Whatever’s left in that head.

Pugly: Should we stop recording by the way? Should we, should we exit or, uh, end the Secondhand Confessions?

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. What were we saying about it?

Poppy: She should stay loyal, and he just, he should try his best.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Aww… Okay… That’s kind of a sad reality.

Mickey: No, really, like there's ways. I think, I think he should look this up, like, I'm sure maybe he has, but like there's probably like some kind of support group stuff or forums—

Pugly: Occupational therapy could be a good option as well. I think they have different trainings for sexual compatibility once disability is in, you know, in the situation as well.

Mickey: I had no idea.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: That's, that's amazing.

Poppy: That would hurt my pride. But I hope that he's stronger—He's a stronger man than me.

Pugly: Well, I mean, he's already making it, what seems to be even harder than just accepting help with, you know, their sexual relationship of, like, asking her to go out with other people. That would hurt me more than saying, okay, let's, like, go to OT.

Mickey: Yeah, because it would kind of make you feel like he doesn't, like, trust that I love him or that I'm that loyal or whatever or—

Pugly: Yeah. Or that he's enough.

Mickey: That he's enough. I mean, I don't know that necessarily means that, but yeah, it can, I can, I can see why she would take it that way. Or she could take it that way. Anyway… Good luck to this couple.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: I hope they get it on.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: Hopefully they, they purchase some toys and assistive devices that'll help them, uh, make it a worthwhile experience.

Mickey: Yeah, baby, it's 2024.

Poppy: I hope everything goes up.

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah, including that boner. [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] The way… [laughs] Ahh, Pugly with one drink. “Including that boner!”

Pugly: I thought that's what she was getting at anyway.

Mickey: Yeah, she was.

Poppy: I was, I just didn't want to say “boner.”

Pugly: Well, I'm here to do that for you.

Mickey: [laughs] Love. That's what friends are for.

Poppy: That was a good one. That was a really good one.

Pugly: I'll go to hell for you guys, okay? I'll say what you're thinking.

Mickey: “Boner!” [laughs]

Pugly: Ope, you're going to hell with me, Mickey.

Mickey: [laughs] Might as well.

Poppy: I'm glad we ended with that one.

Mickey: Yeah. Alright, thank you guys for listening to Secondhand Confessions. We'd love to hear your confessions. What do you guys think about this situation? What should she do? Alright, we're out.

Poppy: Bye.

Pugly: Peace out.

Mickey: Bye.

[Theme song]