[Theme song]

Mickey: Welcome back to Secondhand Confessions. We have another hot episode for you guys today. Pugly, what's our topic for the day?

Pugly: Topic of the day is going to be obsessions!

Mickey: Ooh. Gonna be juicy.

Pugly: Any thoughts on this topic just before we dive in?

Mickey: I hope one of them is a pitiful enough obsession that it makes me feel good about myself.

Poppy: Wow. I second that.

Pugly: What kind of pitiful obsession would make you feel better about yourself?

Mickey: I don’t know, like, uh, like, I don't know, video games or having a lot of cats. Like a cat lady.

Poppy: Oh my God. Oh my God. The men who are in love with their cars—

Mickey: Oh my God!

Poppy: And they, like, they marry their car, and then they, like, sleep underneath it. It's disgusting.

Mickey: Wait, that's a thing? I thought you would be talking about “in love” as in, like, they post a lot of car pics.

Poppy: No, like, they actually sexualize their vehicle.

Pugly: Why don't they sleep inside it? Or is that too womb-like?

Poppy: You know, that would… Oh my God. I don't know. It depends.

Mickey: Mother.

Poppy: It depends.

Mickey: “Mother, is that you?” [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: “Mommy?”

Mickey: Mommy. [laughs] Umbilical cord.

Poppy: “Mommy Elantra.”

Mickey: [laughs] Do all guys have mommy issues?

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: They all do. Mhm. They either love their mommy too much or they don't love mommy enough or weren't loved by mommy.

Mickey: Yes.

Poppy: Or mommy loves them too much. There's four combinations. Okay. He loves Mommy too much. He doesn't love Mommy. Mommy loves him too much. Or Mommy didn't love him.

Mickey: Is this like a Punnett square?

Poppy: Yes.

Pugly: There can be mix and matches too though.

Mickey: Yes. Like Mommy loves him, but he doesn't love mommy.

Poppy: Like you could carry the trait, but it doesn't necessarily mean you show the phenotype, you know what I mean?

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Oh my God. Write a paper right now.

Poppy: Papers on my mind.

Mickey: Mhm. Okay, so, what, what would make you feel better about yourself, Pugly?

Pugly: Ooh… You know, I hadn't thought about this before.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I mean, if they had like a weird collection of something, like bugs or something, that would probably make me feel better about myself just because I feel like that's a worthless endeavor—no offense to anybody who's listening who has this particular obsession, but—

Mickey: Five people just unsubscribed.

Pugly: [laughs] Literally, our whole fan base has just unsubscribed.

Mickey: I feel like our fan base are bug collectors.

Poppy: That's what I’m, that's what I'm thinking.

Pugly: After Betrayal, Betrayal, Betrayal and that slug episode—

Mickey: Oh yeah.

Pugly: —they probably did, they did have some bug entomologists or whatever they're called, um, that just flew to our page.

Poppy: Oh my goodness.

Mickey: Yeah. We're the bug podcast.

Pugly: Well, sorry.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: Um, all right. Well, take us, take us down the first one.

Pugly: Well, this first one is titled “AITAH for hating my wife's creepy ‘hobby project’?”

Mickey: [laughs] Nope. Probably not. Because if he hates it, he just hates it. He doesn't, like, he hasn't said that he, like, destroyed it or anything.

Pugly: Yeah. That he's interfering with it.

Mickey: Yeah. So, so far…

Pugly: Okay, so he's allowed to have his emotions, sure. We've always said that here at Secondhand Confessions.

Mickey: Yeah. You heard it here first. You're allowed to have emotions.

Poppy: Yep.

Pugly: [laughs] Well, this was posted fairly recently on August 31st, 2024. He says: Okay, this sounds insane, but I SWEAR my wife is totally normal otherwise—which makes this so strange to me! For context, we're both in our later 30s and live in a pretty typical suburban neighborhood where we all know each other.

My wife has always loved trashy movies and shows about infidelities, and she eats up true crime about spouses killing their cheating partners too. She just says something about it makes her “morbidly fascinated,” in her words.

Well, a couple months back, we had a scandal in our neighborhood where a married couple divorced because the husband cheated. No, there wasn't a murder or anything like that, but she became obsessed with learning every detail from every neighbor. No matter the occasion, be it a baby shower or cookout, she would bring it up, hoping there would be any new information. A month later is when I stumbled upon “the board” in her home office.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: I was doing some cleaning, and I found a massive bulletin board facing away, leaned up against the wall. Curiosity got the better of me, and I turned it around to find a literal fucking CONSPIRACY BOARD of all our neighbors’ pictures with lines of yarn connecting each other like the fucking Pepe Silvia meme.

I was totally confused and asked what this was, and she told me it was a hobby she had started recently where she would track rumors or likely candidates for cheating on the board. The yarn represented who was possibly cheating with whom. She had clearly gotten all the images on Facebook or some social media and printed them out and even had a few sticky notes with “details.” I told her this was creepy and insane, and she said maybe if I was doing it as a man, but she is just having harmless fun as a hobby and she wouldn't be crazy and try to oust anyone based on rumors, she just likes feeling like a detective. She told me to view it like a creative art piece.

I was still super weirded out but let it go. Or tried. I thought about it a lot. Well, every now and then, I admit to checking the board when cleaning, but just a couple days ago, I looked to see that now I was on the board with a yarn attached to a neighbor's wife I am casual friends with??

Mickey: Oh my God!

Pugly: I asked her why she would add me if she thought I was cheating, and she said that that was a different yarn color for potential “matches” for cheating? She said if it makes me feel better, she was planning on adding herself to the board soon. Well, I got pissed and kind of lost my temper about it. I told her to get rid of the board or our marriage will be in trouble. Things have been super rocky since.

Sorry for the long post. I am starting to feel bad, and it hit me more than usual this morning. Should I apologize to her? And before you ask, no, I don't suspect her of cheating. Honestly, I wish she was because it would at least make more sense than this. AITAH??

Mickey: Holy moly. What?

Poppy: It was weird… Um, and, and fine, honestly, you have a weird hobby, but, and then she put her husband on it? That's immediately just, you've crossed the line there. You lost me.

Mickey: Yeah, and she's like, “I'm gonna add myself soon.” What? [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah. Does she suspect her own self of cheating? What, what is the purpose of adding herself?

Mickey: Yeah. Like, does a detective ever put themselves on the board? No. [laughs]

Pugly: I don't, I've never heard of such a tactic, no.

Mickey: [laughs] She… She… He needs to give her a baby or something. [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah, literally. Give her a child.

Pugly: You trust this woman with a baby?!

Mickey: Women have too much free time on their hands. She needs some household chores, a baby… [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: That's too much responsibility.

Mickey: We shouldn't have given women autonomy.

Pugly: The baby will end up on the board.

Poppy: Probably.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah.

Poppy: Probably.

Mickey: Probably. [laughs]

Poppy: Oh my goodness.

Mickey: That is so weird.

Poppy: That is so weird.

Pugly: Isn't that strange? What would you, how would you handle this situation if this was impacting you personally?

Mickey: I would tell her that it scares me. Like, literally scares me. Don't get me wrong, like obviously, we're all here. Like, I love talking about people and like discussing, you know, the dynamics between people and relationships and like, you know, ooh, did you hear like… Everybody loves that. Like, I would love, like I do that, like, you know, with a, with a partner, I'm like, “Oh my God, this girl did this, and this guy said this, can you believe it?” Like that's normal. It's normal. It's like social, social commentary. But, but the moment she moved it onto a board—I mean, I honestly got chills, like what?

Pugly: Mhm. She's having that conversation with herself, which makes it weird.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Uh huh.

Pugly: It's not gossip anymore.

Poppy: Maybe she doesn't have any friends, and that's all—we already said that's a huge red flag.

Mickey: Mhm. Yeah. I would wanna know that from him. Mhm.

Pugly: Well, there was a comment that really struck me as being just very true. ChrisInBliss said: “That's an interesting mental illness she’s got there.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: Oh gosh. [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: Isn't it? I've never heard of this myself.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah. I don't… Imagine if you, like, went to her—to your friend's house or your neighbor and, like, just made your way into, like, the wrong room or go down to the basement and you see a picture of yourself on a board with different colored strings attaching you to somebody else.

Mickey: Horror story.

Poppy: You know, that is…

Pugly: That would be—I don't even know how I'd react in that situation. You can't just go approach them and say, “Hey, why is my picture on the board with all the yarn?” Because then you're a target.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah. She's got—

Mickey: Do you think, like, she has no purpose in life?

Poppy: Clearly not.

Mickey: She literally could have just started doing ceramics like the rest of us.

Poppy: Right?

Pugly: Someone said: I really couldn't see it getting weirder until she mentioned adding herself to the board. This is a strange game your wife's playing, and it seems like an unhealthy obsession with infidelity.

Poppy: Um, yeah!

Pugly: Then someone else responded: Right? Is this her way of admitting to cheating? I'm so confused???

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Or plotting, plotting to cheat. Like maybe she wants to.

Mickey: Yeah, like maybe her—she's so bored that like she's like, “Ooh, this would be fun.” Like, “What if I…?”

Pugly: But why is she like making it visibly known to him that her intentions are to cheat? Like the whole purpose of cheating is to do it in secret.

Mickey: I know. [laughs]

Poppy: Mhm, mhm.

Mickey: Oh Lord. [laughs]

Poppy: That's like most of the thrill for people.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Is she writing a book? [laughs]

Pugly: Girl, you are giving her too much credit.

Mickey: I don't know, like…

Pugly: We always give the benefit of the doubt.

Poppy: Mickey, she is not writing a book.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: A book needs to be written about her.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: The judgment here is not the asshole, but there is an update on this situation.

Mickey: Ooh, tell us, do tell.

Pugly: The update is: Anyway, Jesus CHRIST. Firstly, appreciate all of the concern and NTAs. It gave me the courage to approach her and tell her that while I may have overreacted by threatening our marriage, I think it is a creepy thing to do. She apologized and said she would get rid of the board. I thought we were good.

Literally two days later. TWO DAYS LATER. Shit hits the fan. Our happily married next door neighbor finds a woman's bra under the bed that does not belong to her. It doesn't take long for the whole neighborhood to find out. Well, my wife is giddy, like jumping up and down for joy.

Mickey: [gasps]

Pugly: She shows me the board (which she still didn't trash like she promised), and of course, the husband was marked with yarn, meaning he was likely to cheat. She told me the board was accurate after all, and maybe she should keep her hobby around.

I was definitely suspicious, so I looked at the board again later. It looked different from the last time I saw it before the latest scandal. Instead of the yarn connecting to another neighbor, the cheating husband's yarn connected to a Post-It with a question mark. Firstly, it was the only question mark there, and I SWORE it wasn't there last time I saw the board. So either she changed it after the cheating to prove a point or slightly before it happened, which made me even more suspicious either way.

Now I felt like I was the detective, and I was going crazy. I went over to the cheating husband’s to ask a few questions. The wife was staying at her parents’, so it was just the two of us. I asked him if he actually did it, and he said no, he would never. Then I asked if my wife had been over recently. He said one day while you were at work, his wife asked her to water a plant they had while they were both away and told her where the key was. So yes. I immediately raised an eyebrow. I asked if he still had the bra, and he was getting nervous and told me not to get the wrong idea. I said, “Don't worry.” He still had the bra, and I looked at it. It was my wife's, but one I knew she almost never wore because it was from a lingerie set I bought her one Christmas she said was uncomfortable.

Mickey: [gasps]

Pugly: I told my neighbor I needed to talk to my wife and ran out, but I told him not to worry.

I approached her with the bra and asked her what was going on. She played stupid, but I told her to cut the BS. I asked if she had either cheated on me with him or planted it there—either way, she was in trouble. She confessed to planting the bra and said it was to make me admit her hobby was “valid” or something. I flipped on her. I said this was worse than her cheating on me because instead of ruining just our marriage, she ruined our neighbors’ AND ours. I demanded she call the wife and admit to everything, even sending pictures of the board. I even showed the Reddit post, which actually helped convince her my wife had planted it rather than cheated with her husband. Well, they made up, but now I have no idea what to do.

I am barely speaking to my wife, and it is only a matter of time before the entire neighborhood figures this out. I seriously need advice.

Mickey: Oh my God. Mental illness was right.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: What is wrong with her?

Poppy: She is very manipulative.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: This is like one of the hobbies that when you asked me earlier, what would make me feel better if someone had this hobby… Like, I never would have imagined this, but this does make me feel better about my life. The fact that this is not part of it.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Every time I buy supplies for a new hobby that I never actually use, I'm gonna think about this woman and be like, “Well, I'm not her, so…” [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah, at least we don't do that. At least we don't do that.

Pugly: At least I don't ruin other people's marriages by subjecting them to this, like, conspiracy board

Poppy: That's crazy.

Mickey: This is crazy. Like, actually. And I wonder if she was, like, actually looking for his approval… I mean, I'm sure she was, or was she, like, gonna do that anyway, eventually, you know? Like, she's kind of playing God in a way.

Pugly: Like, you mean, wanting his validation for this hobby of hers?

Mickey: Yeah. Like, obviously she didn't share that she had the hobby to begin with, and it wasn't until after he found out about it and was mad about it that she, like, planted the bra.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: But I wonder if she was already, like, even if he hadn't found out, if she was going to do that—if she was going to plant the bra, and, like, that was part of the appeal of, like, doing this hobby is that she could kind of play God.

Poppy: She needs some help because she plotted all of this after they asked her to go over and water the plants.

Mickey: Yes. [laughs]

Poppy: You know?

Pugly: Yeah. She took it as an opportunity to completely demolish somebody else's relationship rather than being a helpful neighborly neighbor, like she was asked. Ugh.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Poppy: Well, at least she didn't poison the plants. We had that in an episode as well—the Betrayal, Betrayal, Betrayal episode.

Mickey: I would kind of prefer her to poison the plants than do this.

Pugly: Yeah, you know, at least that wouldn't harm somebody's, like, actual relationship and trust in another person.

Mickey: Yeah, ‘cause I wonder if, like, I mean, the neighbor, um, you know, now that she knows it was her, like, I'm still, I would still, like, be not trusting for a while, you know?

Pugly: Yeah. Of the husband, you mean?

Mickey: No, no. Like, yeah, yeah. Of the husband. And I would also probably, like, move away. [laughs] What would you guys do if your neighbor did this?

Pugly: I would want her institutionalized.

Poppy: Yes, I would, I would call for backup. Yep.

Mickey: Yeah. What do you even, like, who do you even call? Like, do you call like, a mental hospital? Like, what do you do? [laughs]

Pugly: I mean, like, I don't even know that they would, like, take her in because if she's not exhibiting true delusions or some kind of harm to others—I mean, she has harmed someone's relationship. I don't know if they would physi—like, count that as much as physical harm. So, it's hard to say whether they'd actually consider putting her in an inpatient facility.

Mickey: Jeez.

Poppy: But she's crazy. She is.

Pugly: She's certified.

Mickey: Yeah. I think they're probably going to get a divorce.

Poppy: They should.

Mickey: ‘Cause men… Like, I think a woman would stay with him if he was the one doing it, but a man wouldn't. Immediately, he would get a divorce, I think. Um, but—

Pugly: Men have lower tolerance for things like conspiracy boards?

Poppy: You don't—Yeah, you don’t hear about men doing things like this because their brain isn't as big.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: They can't handle all the yarn connections.

Mickey: [laughs] Oh, that's too funny.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: You go play, man.

Mickey: Yep.

Poppy: Go play.

Mickey: Go play. Go hit—go throw rocks. Um, no, but imagine him in his, like, next relationship, like first date. He's like, “Yeah, I was married before. Yeah, she was literally crazy.”

Poppy: “Why did it end? Why did it end? What happened?”

Mickey: He's actually, I think in one of our previous episodes, I was like… One of us said something about if he says he has crazy exes or if someone says they have crazy exes, don't believe them; they're the crazy one… This is the only guy that you should believe.

Poppy: Yes.

Pugly: But if they say just one crazy ex, that's more believable than every single ex was crazy.

Mickey: That's true, that's true.

Poppy: When men say that it's because they drove—it's that man that drove the girl to be crazy. Like, craziness is provoked, okay?

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah…

Pugly: Sometimes.

Poppy: Sometimes. If the girl is not truly crazy, she was provoked. But this girl here, she's crazy. Unprovoked.

Mickey: That's coming from inside.

Pugly: Her craziness was inspired by the events of her local neighborhood, you know, scandal.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: What is this, Desperate Housewives?

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Oh God. [laughs] She needs to be re-educated.

Pugly: Desperate Divorcees.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Um, also I never really understood like when people are obsessed with true crime to begin with. Like, not, not that, that's crazy or anything, but people whose whole, like, like their only interest…

Poppy: Yeah. Like, they watch it to relax. You know? That is not, that is the furthest thing from relaxing for me.

Mickey: Yeah, I agree.

Pugly: I do enjoy a good true crime documentary or TikTok or whatever, to be honest.

Mickey: But it's not the only thing you listen to though.

Pugly: It's not the only thing I consume, no.

Mickey: There's people out there who like that's the only thing they care about. Like they're obsessed. And I'm like, I mean…

Pugly: Maybe it's a plan. It's like to develop the skills necessary to carry out a successful operation.

Mickey: Yeah, they're just listening for ideas.

Pugly: Mhm. Could be.

Mickey: Yeah. The ideas that don't trigger like the NSA to raid your house.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. [sighs] Yikes. Oh my God.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Did he say how long they've been married? I mean, again, every Reddit post that's about like, “My spouse did this crazy thing. What should I do?” Like, it's like, “We're literally perfect. Our relationship is perfect, but this one absurd crazy thing like… What do I do?”

Pugly: Yeah. I have to doubt this is the only…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: He didn't say how long they had been together, but Cool_Description8334 said: I honestly refuse to believe this is real. Your wife is actually nuts. This is insane behavior to have.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Cheeseballfondue said: I was thinking just the opposite: This one is so original, it's GOT to be real. No AI is going to come up with this insanity. That's left to humans!

Mickey: That's what I was about to say. I was like, it's so weird that—

Pugly: It just might be true.

Mickey: Yeah. Yikes. What would you guys do if you discovered your spouse was doing this?

Poppy: I'd have to leave.

Pugly: I think I'd have to leave. And call the cops or call family members or somebody to, like, take care of this person because they need help beyond my scope of practice.

Mickey: Yeah. You guys, like, let's, let's say, like you were married for, like, 10 years, at least, or whatever, or like you were together for 10 years, at least. You don't think you would try to, like, do counseling first?

Pugly: Well, he said, like, he tried to get her to throw it away and, like, you know, develop normal hobbies.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: But she refused. So, what are you going to do? I, I can't force her to be interested in things she's not interested in, but I don't have to stick around with somebody who's got a conspiracy board fucking hanging out in the closet.

Poppy: For me, it's the heartlessness of, like, hurting the other—fully knowing that she was going to ruin someone else's relationship and just to prove a point to me.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: No way. No way!

Pugly: I don’t believe that's her only motive though. The fact that—Like, the whole “validating her hobby” thing does not scream honest to me.

Poppy: No. It's not about, “Oh, I wanted you to see that this thing is real.” No, she wanted, she wanted to toss that salad, y'all. She did.

Pugly: Mhm.

Poppy: She did. And she did. And she did.

Pugly: She did. That salad has so much fucking dressing everywhere, all over the place—the walls, the floor, like everywhere.

Poppy: Yep.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: Under the bed.

Poppy: Yep. Everywhere.

Mickey: Under the pillow [laughs].

Pugly: Is that where the bra was found? I thought it was under the bed, my bad.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Gross.

Poppy: I had a salad for dinner, and I just feel disgusting now.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] It's crazy because he's like, can you please, like, have a normal hobby, like hiking or painting? And she's like, “No, I wanna ruin people's lives.”

Pugly: Yeah. Let's sabotage the neighborhood.

Mickey: [laughs] And possibly your life too. Like, she's like, she had him on the board, like, she's about to do something for him too.

Pugly: Guilty by association too.

Poppy: That girl needs a job.

Pugly: Yeah. She needs a job. She needs therapy. She needs some meds. She needs to be stabilized.

Mickey: The straitjacket.

Pugly: I mean, I don't know how helpful that is, to be honest, but sure.

Mickey: Handcuffs. [laughs]

Pugly: Jeez. I don't think she's done anything that drastic.

Mickey: I don't know. It's only a matter of time, like…

Pugly: She, I guess maybe, maybe they could argue that it's trespassing because she didn't go in for the intended purpose or something, but…

Mickey: Yeah, that's true. No, but I, honestly, I would be scared of someone like this, like…

Pugly: Yeah, this would honestly fill me with fear.

Mickey: Yeah. It feels like that's just the first act, like, on a long, in a long career.

Pugly: A long list, a long line of yarn of people to be targeted.

Mickey: Yes. [laughs] Different colors of yarn.

Pugly: Mhm. Different severity levels of the, of the sabotaging.

Mickey: [laughs] Yikes. Oh my God. Does he have any other update?

Pugly: No other updates. That was the last of it for him.

Mickey: Mmm…

Pugly: Any last thoughts on that one before we try another one?

Mickey: I'm speechless, honestly.

Poppy: I said my piece.

Pugly: Alright, well, let's move on to, “I stalked my husband for two years before I formally met him.”

Mickey: What? [laughs]

Poppy: Oh my God. Why is it always the woman?

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Making us look bad.

Pugly: We have a lot of men villains, so…

Mickey: Yeah, you know, we gotta balance it out. I wonder if her husband's like a celebrity or something and she stalked him. Like, because what?

Pugly: What do you think, Poppy?

Mickey: I don’t know. Two years, two years of stalking?

Pugly: Two years. That's intense. It's a long time.

Poppy: What are we talk—Like, what kind of stalking? What kind of stalking are we talking about here? Like, online? Okay, like, that's child's play.

Pugly: For two years though? That’s a lot.

Poppy: You know, whatever, whatever, whatever. But, like, like showing up to the house, tapping his phone…

Mickey: Tracking his car.

Poppy: Like, tracking, yeah, tracking him.

Pugly: Okay, well, we'll get into it and we'll, we'll find out.

Poppy: Yeah. I mean, if it's just online, I think that, you know, maybe that person has social anxiety. It's still weird, but like—

Pugly: It's, it's weird. It's still creepy.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Just, just for all our listeners out there, if you're considering stalking somebody for two plus years, please think again.

Mickey: Or even for like two hours.

Pugly: Two hours is more reasonable.

Mickey: [laughs] Okay.

Poppy: Two weeks, two weeks.

Mickey: Two weeks.

Pugly: Two weeks?

Poppy: That’s where it starts getting weird. Not even two days?

Pugly: Yeah, two days is fine.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Like a weekend. You get a weekend to stalk somebody, and then it's over. Like stop.

Poppy: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, is this a, is this a three-day weekend…?

Pugly: No, it's not a three-day weekend. It's a regular non-holiday weekend.

Mickey and Poppy: A regular degular…

Mickey: Non-holiday weekend.

Poppy: Regular degular Saturday, Sunday. And then you got to move on.

Pugly: Yep. Yep.

Mickey: Monday blues.

Poppy: You have until 8:00 AM on Monday.

Pugly: That's the word from Pugly. Two-day weekend; stalking is acceptable. Nothing else.

Mickey: [laughs] Oh God, we're gonna get arrested when someone uses this as justification.

Pugly: Please do not arrest us. This was not actually uh advisable guidance.

Mickey: Satire. Okay. Go ahead, tell us the story.

Pugly: “I stalked my husband for two years before I formally met him.” This was posted in r/offmychest on June 30th, 2023.

I (24F) married my husband (28M) about a year and a half ago. The first time I saw my husband, I was a freshman in high school; he was a freshman in college. He was walking his dog at the park when he stopped to talk to my brother (27M) because they happened to go to the high school together. That was moment I became hooked. That same day, I found his Instagram, his family's social media, and also where he lived, since my brother offered to walk him home while I tagged along. When I got home that day, I knew I wanted him, but of course, I was only 14 while he was 18, so I came up with a plan.

I found out his younger brother was only one year younger than me and would be attending—

Poppy: I’m sorry. 14 years old?!

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Yep.

Poppy: I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Keep going.

Pugly: You're fine. You're fine.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I found out his younger brother was only one year younger than me and would be attending my current high school. I figured that I had to befriend his younger brother by any means possible next year when he moves up as a freshman, while I become a sophomore, and I did. It took around halfway of my junior year where we became best friends, and he invited me over regularly to his house to hang out. This is where I was able to befriend my current husband's mom, and God, did she love to talk about him. From her, I found out what college he goes to, his past girlfriends, what his elementary and middle school was, his favorite and least favorite foods, his pet peeves, what he likes, etc., etc..

Eventually, when my visits started getting more and more frequent, I formally met my current husband again. My current husband, I'll call him “E,” would come over every other week and stay for either Friday through Sunday or Saturday and Sunday. Those are the days when you can stalk, girl. Those are the days when you can stalk. But none, none other than that.

Poppy: [laughs]

Pugly: On those days specifically, I would wear my cutest outfits to impress him and also joke around with him a lot. Eventually I befriended him as well.

A little background on E: He is the school record holder for a certain sport at my school, which I just so happened to do. And around halfway through my senior year, E came back during the season to help coach the current high school athletes (which included me), in order to get some more volunteer work hours in, and I got to spend a lot more time with him. I loved every second of it. We were friends before, but then we became much closer since I got to spend lots of extra time with him after school, where sometimes he would even drive me home since we lived relatively close.

Fast forward to when I had to move away to NYC for college. E moved with me since he coincidentally got a job near my college. (EDIT: I lied. It wasn't a coincidence. I found out he got a job offer and applied to a college nearby his workplace.)

Mickey: Oh my God. She is obsessed with this man.

Poppy: Oh my God.

Pugly: Being each other's only friends in a new state, we became incredibly close. We started dating when I was almost a sophomore in college. He proposed to me after I graduated, and we just got married almost a year ago. He knows absolutely nothing about how I truly know him, and believes it is fate that brought us together through his younger brother.

Lately, I have been debating on whether or not I should tell him—or at least his younger brother—the truth, since the only reason I befriended him was to get closer to E. I feel guilty every time he tells others our love story, because the truth is, I've known him for 10 years while he's only known me for about 7.

Then there is an update. She says: I read a reply saying that the best thing for MYSELF is to keep it a secret, which is what a lot of people are saying, but the best thing for HIM is to tell him, and I figured that person is really right. I will be telling him that this Tuesday on his day off. He deserves to know who he married.

Poppy: No.

Mickey: Stalker. [laughs]

Poppy: No, I would not tell him.

Pugly: You would not advise this?

Poppy: No, I would not tell him how crazy I am.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: She doesn't even recognize it as crazy though, I think.

Poppy: Yeah, she sees it as like dedication to him.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. Why do we think she did all this? Like, why?

Poppy: She probably had a fantasy in her head because she was 14, 1-4, 10 plus 4… So basically 10.

Mickey: Uh huh…

Pugly: Girl math.

Poppy: Fantasizing over this—Yeah, fantasizing over this guy. She said we got to spend a lot more time after school. Yeah, because he was your coach, young lady.

Mickey: Yeah. That, it's weird. It's very weird.

Poppy: I feel like he was probably flirting back too because like, again, women usually have to be provoked. Okay? So…

Pugly: Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I see. But I just wonder why is now the time to tell him? Like why did she not consider this before the marriage, before they got engaged, before, you know, these milestones were reached?

Mickey: I know.

Poppy: Because she got what she wanted at the end of it, which was like the, the last thing you can do with somebody is married and have kids. So like…

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: So she's at like near the final stage.

Poppy: Right, like she's met, she could have met her long-term goal, and now she's like, “What do I do now?”

Mickey: She wants to spice things up.

Poppy: And now she wants to be honest? Girl, don't do it.

Pugly: We don't need the trials and tribulations right now.

Poppy: This is, yeah, this is not the time or the place.

Mickey: I feel like she should get a therapist.

Pugly: True.

Poppy: We, we, we pass out therapy for everybody that we talk about on here.

Pugly: Mhm. I mean, everybody needs therapy.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Especially these people that we talk about.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: And, like, nobody knows, except for her? And now the whole Reddit community?

Pugly: Yeah. [laughs] How do you think he's gonna respond when he, when she tells him?

Poppy: Not good.

Mickey: Yeah, I think he's gonna freak out a little. I think, like, some of it is like, oh, she was young; she was stupid. Maybe he might be like, “Aww.” But—

Poppy: Yeah, he might take it as a joke.

Mickey: —when she moved for him and then they started dating and she didn't tell him then, like, “Honestly, I've had a crush on you forever, and this is why…”

Poppy: That would have been good timing.

Mickey: Yeah, but the fact that she still kept it to herself, uh, probably was gonna weird him out.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: That's why she kept it to herself because she knew it would weird him out.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: It would weird most people out.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Me, at least.

Poppy: You know, for me, I'd be like, “Aww, like you love me. You're obsessed with me.” [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Really? That would be your response?

Poppy: No, I'm just kidding. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: I think if he, if he, if she had told him, like, earlier, that would be the reaction. I, I would react that way. I'd be like, “Aww, like you only did cheer”— What, what is it, what was he coaching her, sorry?

Pugly: She didn't say the sport.

Mickey: Whatever, uh, sport, it was, like, “Oh, you just did it because you liked me, aww.” But then, like, afterwards it's like, “Ugh, why aren't you normal?” [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah…

Mickey: Like, it's, it's screaming like I can't get him in the normal way.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: And, I mean, she was significantly younger than him.

Pugly: If this is the way she's strategizing getting in a relationship…

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: It's weird.

Pugly: It's weird.

Mickey: And did she not tell anyone that she had a crush on him, like when she was in middle school?

Pugly: Maybe she didn't have friends. I mean, someone like this…

Mickey: I know, but I feel like, I don't know. Isn't it like a human need to tell people things? Is that just me?

Pugly: Well, maybe she did tell people, and they believed the whole storyline of like, oh, well, they just connected through the younger brother, later down the line when they found out that they were married or engaged or whatever.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: No one would ever think of this.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: No, that's not the first conclusion people would come to.

Mickey: Yeah. God, that's crazy. She moved to New York City for him without even, like, being together.

Pugly: I, I hate that she put that in there. Like, why not just leave the lie? Leave the lie as it is. Say that you coincidentally moved there, and at least have that one element of the story be a coincidence rather than this creepy…

Mickey: No, I knew immediately when she said that, I was like, yeah, no, she moved for him.

Pugly: [laughs] Well… cyberpudel says: If the genders were swapped, everyone would tell you how creepy that is. Just in case you didn't know: It's creepy as fuck. At least it worked out for you so you never have to stalk someone again. Please take this to your grave so you don't need to do this again.

Poppy: Uh huh.

Mickey: Honestly.

Pugly: That's Poppy's conclusion. I say fuck the marriage up. Fuck it up because you gotta be honest with your partner. You can't be lying about—

Poppy: You do. No, you don't have to lie about it all. You could, to a certain extent, say something like “I actually like…”—you know, you can soften it up. It doesn't have to be so hardcore “I stalked you for this many years. I moved here for you,” like all of that, all that jazz.

Pugly: Okay. How do you recommend going about it?

Poppy: I recommend, um, not going about it! [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Well, if she decides she must, what would you say? How would you say she can, you know, sugarcoat it?

Poppy: Um, “I have always really liked you and had like a massive crush on you, and when I heard that you were moving to New York, I wanted to move to New York and see if anything could happen,” and that's it. Just leave it at that. Even that’s a little weird. Just leave it at that.

Pugly: So not even mention the whole “I knew you before you even knew me,” like, with that whole outing thing that he did when he walked with her brother home or something—

Mickey: Uh huh.

Pugly: —that one time? The very first interaction with her.

Poppy: Well, she was still an adolescent.

Pugly: Okay, so anything beyond a certain age is like off limits?

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: A legal age, you know? Like before 18, does it even really count?

Pugly: Okay, so she’s not responsible for anything that occurred before 18.

Poppy: Her brain didn't form fully yet. So, no.

Mickey: Also, he was 18, or like when they moved, I'm, I'm assuming she was 18 and he was 22-ish?

Pugly: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. It was a four-year difference.

Mickey: I mean, and all throughout college, like, there's like literally 50% of campus is young men—

Poppy: Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

Mickey: And you're like, “But he, he is the best young man.” [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs]

Mickey: Like, I don't know, like I feel like going to college would cure me.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: You know? Like if I was that obsessed with someone, going to college is specifically the place that would cure me.

Pugly: But maybe you don't have this variety of mental illness.

Mickey: [laughs] I really don't.

Pugly: As the other commenter said. I do, that comment was just so on the nose, I feel like. Whatever they said about the other story.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: What did they say again?

Mickey: “I've never seen this type of mental illness before” or whatever.

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah. “That's an interesting mental illness she's got there.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: But I, I mean, same with this story.

Poppy: They all do.

Mickey: I think if she's really just trying to keep the marriage going and she, like, realizes how creepy it was and does some work on her own, like, whether with a therapist or on her own, whatever, but if she really wants them to stay together and like, she wants it, like, she also wants him to know because she cares about him and she realizes how wrong it is, then, you know, there’s a way to say it that’s like a little bit softer blow, you know? Like Poppy was saying—

Pugly: And how would you do that?

Mickey: I mean, I’d just be like, you know, “I was a crazy little girl, like, and I was so obsessed with you, and I thought you were the only guy in the whole world. And, you know, as time went on and I, I made these stupid rash decisions of, like, moving to New York City for you, even though we didn't have a relationship, um, because I was just so obsessed with you, like, I wanna admit that to you: I was obsessed with you; I was in love with you, but it was coming from a, a young, young girl place, like, it wasn't me as an adult.” Um… And then, “I did actually get to know you, and I actually really developed real adult feelings for you, and I should have told you this sooner.” Yeah. I don't know.

Pugly: Yeah. The reason I don't think that would be successful in her case is that I don't think she has any compunction about the methods that she used in this case. I don't think she feels guilt about those things, or I don't think she views it as a “young girl” thing that she did. I think it was just like something that she did as her, like, truly just core to her personality.

Mickey: But like, she obviously feels bad enough that she wants to tell him.

Poppy: Well, no, but I don't think it's… I don't think that she wants to tell him to do right by him, I think she wants to tell him to clear her conscience.

Pugly: Yeah, so that he can forgive her, and she can move on from this.

Mickey: Mmm… So she doesn't actually feel sorry for him, she feels sorry for herself really.

Poppy: Yes, she wants to feel better.

Pugly: Although she does acknowledge the comments that said—in her update, she said, you know, I know a lot of the comments are saying, “If I tell him then it's for his benefit, not mine, and if I keep it to myself, it's for my benefit, not his, but I'm gonna tell him on Tuesday anyway,” or whatever she said.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Something along those lines, so, I mean, maybe she does view it as something that's gonna be more selfless than not. I don’t know if she agrees with that or if she is really seeking more of a forgiveness kind of response.

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: Well, we do have an update.

Mickey: Ooh.

Poppy: I'm ready.

Pugly: Alright, this update was posted July 6th, 2023. I told him this 4th of July. After the fireworks mostly ended and we were heading back, I asked him in the car, “Wouldn't it have been weird if we met each other before the first time we actually met? But we just didn't think of each other as significant at the time?” He smiled and turned to me saying, “Pfft, that's impossible. There's no universe where we would have met and I would not think of you as significant.” That statement struck me in the heart, because I knew I would soon prove that sentence VERY wrong, but I continued on with my plan anyway.

“What if I told you we have met each other before? Before that time I was introduced as ‘E’s little brother's friend’?” He looked at me like I was crazy, so that’s when I pulled over on the side of the road and pulled out my phone to show him the post I put up here before that explained everything.

He took about 8 minutes to read the whole thing, and when he finished, he put the phone down and stared straight ahead—almost like he was dumbfounded, scared, and confused all at the same time. I started throwing out every excuse and apology I could muster at the moment for about 15 minutes straight when he decided to tell me to stop, and I did. Then he just sat there and sobbed uncontrollably for about 10 minutes before he finally asked me how much of our relationship (and how much of my identity) was fabricated according to his liking.

I told him the honest truth: none of my personality or identity was fabricated for him, except for the fact of how we met. The only thing I ever changed about myself to make him like me more was lying about liking Chinese food. (I hate Chinese food.) But other than that, everything else was real. Although my friendship with his younger brother was built upon ill intentions, my friendship between his brother and I is now one of the most genuine friendships I have now.

He just cried and told me that he does not want to divorce at all, but he does want us to have some time apart so that he could absorb the truth that I gave him. He also said that he expects me to tell his brother and mom this Friday because they deserve to know the truth just as much as he did. I told him okay, and we drove the rest of the ride home in silence. When we got home, he hugged me and cried for about 5 minutes before he got out of the car, packed his stuff, and said that he would be staying at a nearby hotel for now. He said that he knows that he still loves me but does not yet know how to react to the fact that the beginning of our relationship was very, very orchestrated.

To sum it all up, I guess telling him was a success? I honestly don't know. He sent me a good night and I love you text last night while he was at the hotel, so I guess he's not as much mad as he may be betrayed?

Poppy: Why was he crying?

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I guess because like this whole relationship is built on a lie. Is he not allowed to cry? We are entitled to our emotions. We here at Secondhand Confessions truly believe this.

Poppy: Yes, we are, but like, I don't know, I feel like I would be more in shock than just start crying. I don't think I would cry.

Pugly: Yeah…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I don't know.

Poppy: And then they got home, and he cried again. For five minutes.

Pugly: I don't know why she's calculating all the times that he's—18 minutes here, 5 minutes there—it’s like…

Mickey: She's obsessed with him.

Pugly: Yeah. Is there like a certain threshold that he has to meet for it to be like forgiveness is imminent or something like that?

Mickey: I don't know. I mean, now he's like… He has all these memories with her that he probably holds really fondly, and now he's like, they're all stained with this realization that, like, it wasn't how he thought it was. It wasn't, you know, wow, like spontaneous. Like she just happened to be my little brother's friend or whatever.

Poppy: It wasn't organic.

Mickey: Yeah. But, you know… That's not the part that gets me, like he didn't even react to the part of her moving to New York.

Pugly: I do think it's weird, like, if she, if she really did mention to him the Chinese food thing, I'd be like, “Oh my God, like she lied to me about the Chinese food. What else is she lying to me about? She's saying she's not lying about anything else, but like, the Chinese food is a big deal.”

Poppy: Well, I was just gonna say it would be a big deal to me ‘cause who doesn't like Chinese food?

Mickey: [laughs] My dad, my dad doesn't like Chinese food. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] Whoops.

Poppy: Bless his heart. He doesn't know what's good for him.

Mickey: He doesn’t.

Pugly: Well, we can tell something’s off with this girl.

Mickey: What if like she just said the Chinese food thing to throw him off the scent? Like, because if she said that to me, I'd be like, “She's being honest because she told me something. Not, she didn't tell me, ‘No, I didn't lie about anything.’ So she, she must be telling the truth.”

Pugly: But that's the one thing that comes to her mind I think because it's like it is so innocent or whatever. It's like…

Mickey: Yeah, I know. But like, what if he's just trying to throw her—or she's just trying to throw him off the scent?

Pugly: She could be. She very well could be.

Poppy: Why did he like pick up and like go stay at a hotel and stuff? That doesn't sound right to me.

Pugly: Mhm.

Poppy: He's like, “I, I, I still love you, and I don't want to get a divorce, but um I'm gonna take some time. I'm actually gonna go sleep at this hotel.” Like what?

Mickey: Yeah, like instead of the couch or like another bedroom or something.

Poppy: Also, this isn't like that—to me, again, it would, it would like take me back, but it wouldn't make me like… It wouldn't fill me with this like betrayal feeling. Initially, I guess. I don't know.

Pugly: For two years though? If she admitted that—that it was stalking for two years?

Poppy: But they were kids.

Mickey: That's true.

Pugly: Well, she was a kid.

Poppy: So was he, even if he was 18.

Pugly: I guess. Yeah, she does have another update though.

Mickey: Oh. Go right ahead.

Pugly: She says: Woke up this morning to find out that “hubby” not only lied about going to a hotel to stay at, but also lied about not wanting a divorce. Through a text message. He went to his family's home—not a fuvking hotel. Told them the entire story himself—probably exaggerated it too to make me seem crazy. His whole family wants nothing to do with me too. Claims I'm psycho. He said that he lied about going to a hotel because he knew if he told the truth, I would try to stop him? Honestly, I feel so betrayed. Lol, are you kidding me?

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Okay. I tried to be a good wife by showing him the true me, and this is what he does? I did all this work just for it to end up like this?

Honestly, I kind of deserve it. I didn't even tell him in the first place because I felt bad; I told him because I had a suspicion that he was catching on to the fact that I knew him for 2.5 years before he knew me, largely because I found out he was keeping my old phone in his work desk. My old phone that had screenshots of a lot of his old Instagram posts, plans in my Notes app about him, etc.. So I guess he never truly loved me if he can't even get past an honest confession like this one. I might update this in a few years when I find a new husband. Lol.

Poppy: Hm.

Pugly: Wow.

Mickey: That was the update?

Pugly: No compunction. That was the update.

Mickey: She's literally cuckoo.

Poppy: It sounds like he was looking for a way out.

Pugly: I mean, he found a good one. I would—that's a way out for me too. I gotta agree with him on this one.

Poppy: Really?

Pugly: Yes!

Poppy: I would still—a part—there's a small percentage where I would feel flattered by this. [laughs]

Pugly: Oh my God. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: No, I would feel personally like, like my life had been invaded or something, unnecessarily. Like if they were that attracted to each other to begin with, why not just like approach me and say, “Hey, like I really am attracted to you. Do you want to go on a date?”? Like why not just be upfront about it?

Mickey: I mean, she was a child.

Pugly: Okay, not at that time, but at the time when the college happened. There was no need to do all the stalking in between and like using the brother to get to him? That was unnecessary.

Mickey: I, it sounds like they're not far off from college years.

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Because, like, it sounds like they haven't been married for that long or they haven’t been together for, like, longer than four or five years because, like, if it was 10 years into their relationship, I think he'd be, like, remembering it, like, “Aw, we were so childish back then.” Like, I think he would remember it differently. But the fact that it's rocked his whole world, I think it's still kind of fresh.

Poppy: Yeah, maybe, maybe they're like 23, and—well, how old is he now? They didn't say. Yeah, if he's like a 24-year-old boy…

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: That would, that would be enough to make him, like, not handle this in a, in a mature way.

Mickey: Yeah. And it's like a bigger deal to him.

Pugly: I would have a hard time, like him, I assume, believing that she didn't adapt her personality to fit what she thought I wanted based on, like, the conversations that she had with his mom—

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: —you know, of her, telling her his dislikes and likes and his interests and hobbies and his grades in school and his teachers and all these details and stuff. Like…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I don't know. It seems like she had a lot of fodder to be able to adapt to what he needed or wanted or whatever.

Poppy: But he should know her well enough now that if all of it was faking, it would have, it would have like shown itself by now.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: They've known each other for a few years that—

Pugly: Maybe, or maybe her personality really did just adjust to those things because she was so young and impressionable that like she just adapted to those interests and whatever.

Mickey: Maybe.

Pugly: Like she didn't really have an opportunity for her own growth, her own personalized growth.

Mickey: Yeah. Yikes. [laughs] This is crazy. Do you think she meant it about her future husband?

Pugly: [laughs] Well, she hasn't posted again, so I assume she's not married yet. She hasn't remarried.

Poppy: So they for sure got a divorce.

Pugly: I mean, not, not totally confirmed. Um, it was just mentioned that that was the plan.

Mickey: The weirdest thing to me that she did was the notes—that she had notes about him, like what he likes and stuff like that. Like she wasn't like, “Oh yeah, I kind of remember his mom said he likes cologne.”

Pugly: Mhm. Yeah…

Mickey: It's kind of like the first story, actually. Like once when it was just in her head, it's, it's not crazy, but then the fact that she had plans and that she wrote things down, that's what makes her crazy.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: We all fantasize about things. We, we all see someone we're like, “Oh, we would make a good couple,” or we, you know, “That person's hot,” or like, whatever.

Pugly: And that's the weekend stalking spree. You're welcome to do that.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: But beyond that, we're, we're, we're breaching, we're going into bad territory.

Mickey: Yeah, for sure.

Poppy: Hm.

Mickey: Yeah, because then it's like… I mean, would you even want that? Like, would you want to meet someone, and they don't know the real you? Like if it's not organic, you know?

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: No one really knows you right off the bat though.

Mickey: That's true.

Pugly: Well, this girl did.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Unless they're studying. Unless they're studying.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: Your life.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: True.

Poppy: Huh…

Mickey: You know what? Maybe I need a stalker. Maybe they would know me really well and just do everything that I want. [laughs]

Pugly: Oh my God. That's terrible. Why would you want that? That's not a relationship.

Mickey: Please, nobody stalk me. Yeah, nobody stalk me, please. Thank you.

Pugly: Yeah, we're keeping ourselves anonymous for a reason. We don't want to be stalked.

Mickey: I live in, uh, Nairobi—

Pugly: We have a listener from there.

Mickey: —if you want to stalk me—Oh, God, no. Well, don't stalk me, Nairobi listener, please. Thank you.

Pugly: Well, someone said: I'm calling BS on all of this. There is no way OP orchestrated this entire plot only for it to end up working out perfectly just to sabotage it a year into marriage.

Mickey: Yeah. I, I've, I actually wondered that too. Like, I'm like, you got what you wanted. Why are you ruining it?

Pugly: Yeah!

Poppy: Hm.

Pugly: Exactly. It's like maybe it's not what she wanted because she didn't really try to find somebody that was a compatible match. She just found somebody that she thought was attractive or whatever she thought about him.

Mickey: Yeah. And, and when you're young and you get a crush, it kind of colors all your future crushes because you're always gonna be chasing that type of person. Because you're so impressionable, you start—like, it's like your first crush, your first big crush…

Pugly: Mhm…

Mickey: It's like such a foundation for you and your love life in the future.

Pugly: Mmk.

Mickey: Not, not even if it's not who they are, like, in reality, but who you think they are. So…

Pugly: I don't know if I agree with that.

Mickey: Oh, okay.

Pugly: But that's just difference of experiences, I guess. A difference of experience.

Mickey: Like, how can I say this? Like, I'm thinking about my first, my first crush in whatever, elementary or middle school, and, like, it wasn't him that I really liked; it was just like the idea of him, and I was like, “Oh, he's cute, and he probably is so nice and he's so, like, whatever, and he's good at math.” [laughs] You know, all these things…

Pugly: That's a good trait to have. You, uh, really went after that one later down the line.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Whew!

Mickey: I really, um, I really like math.

Pugly: [laughs] Nerd alert.

Poppy: We woo, we woo.

Mickey: Um… [laughs] Maybe, maybe I'm going to be on the next obsessions episode. [laughs]

Pugly: Obsessions episode. Secondhand Confessions: Obsessions.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Ooh.

Mickey: But I don't, I kind of lost my train of thought, to be honest with you guys. [laughs] But um—

Pugly: You were saying something about like your crush when you, your first crush—

Mickey: Yeah, like, your crush, like, you kind of like, put a lot on them that isn't really there. You don't really see them.

Pugly: You fantasize about what they could be or would be, but not the reality of it. Yeah, okay. That’s fair.

Poppy: So, is that your first crush or your first, like, fantasy that you have with someone that you could actually see yourself, like being with?

Pugly: Or is that synonymous? Are those the same thing for you?

Poppy: I don't, I don't know if they are.

Pugly: Like, when we're saying “crush,” do we mean, like elementary school level? Like crushes?

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I don't, how would you know if they're good at math or not? We didn't do math back then.

Mickey: What do you mean? I was crushing the timetables.

Pugly: Oh, well, girl, we were a little behind on that, I guess. I think we started doing that in third grade, but I'm talking about my kindergarten crush.

Mickey: Oh. I don't remember kindergarten. That's good for you, you had a kindergarten crush.

Pugly: Yeah, I did.

Poppy: Yeah, I don't remember mine.

Pugly: Really?

Mickey: The first crush I remember was like in fourth grade.

Pugly: I even know her name.

Mickey: Really?

Poppy: Her name was REDACTED.

Mickey: REDACTED, if you're hearing this—

Pugly: She's not hearing this. We don’t talk.

Mickey: Pugly is a very successful—

Pugly: Unsuccessful person.

Mickey: —entrepreneur.

Pugly: I’m successful at being unsuccessful.

Mickey: Hit her up. [laughs]

Pugly: I'm a, I'm a successful failure.

Mickey: That's good. You, you succeeded at something.

Pugly: Yeah, you're right.

Mickey: Okay, but what, like, do you remember, like, what was it that made you crush on her? Like, and now looking back, are you like, “Wait, I was so silly”?

Pugly: I don't know. She just made me nervous when I was around her. I remember being nervous. And she was good-looking. I don't know if she still is, but back in the day, she was.

Poppy: Back in the day.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: Six years old.

Mickey: Six years old.

Pugly: Yeah, so any final thoughts on, uh, the stalker story?

Mickey: Um, she needs to be institutionalized.

Pugly: Really? Really now?

Mickey: No. No, not, not that far, but like something is wrong with her.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: Because, and I think there's something that she's not saying. Like, remember how, when she first wrote the post, she didn't mention that… She said, “I coincidentally moved to New York City,” and then I think after probably being accused—

Pugly: Mhm. In the comments.

Mickey: She edited it to say, “Okay, no, I, I moved for him.”

Pugly: “I manipulated my life.”

Mickey: Mhm. I feel like there's like a lot that she probably left out.

Pugly: Yeah, me too. Which is why I think it's creepier than it appears just from the post alone.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I would not be personally flattered.

Mickey: [chuckles] I would be flattered by the first few, couple of years of that. Like, you know, like the whole, like, in middle school or whatever, high school, she was like, she really liked him and she was too nervous to, like, meet him in person, so she befriended his brother. Like that part would be, like, that's cute. But then moving to New York City… Weird. And then not telling him this when they were, like, dating? Weird. And when they were married? Weird. Like that, those are the parts that, like, really make me nervous.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: See, this is why being a foreigner or a foreign child to a foreign parent, they would never let you go to New York. [laughs] Fresh out of school. They'd be like, “Nope, you can stay here,” and that would have just broken the chain right then and there. If you can make it past making friends with a boy.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: You know?

Mickey: Yeah. Whoo. Yeah.

Poppy: That's my secondhand confession.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's like, why do we let kids go to a different city, different state at 18? Different city, I understand, but, like… especially if it's not that far, but a whole different state?

Poppy: No.

Pugly: Wow. What if the state is right on the cusp of where you're at currently?

Mickey: You know what I'm talking about. Like, it's not, if it's not easy to get there, why are you letting your literal child move somewhere and, like, have to, like, be self-sufficient 100%?

Poppy: They don't know what they're doing.

Mickey: Yeah!

Pugly: They gotta learn somehow.

Mickey: They do, but like, I think it's gradual, like…

Poppy: Uh huh.

Mickey: All of a sudden, at 18, you're like, “Uh, I just blew up the laundry machine.” Like, I don't know. I don't know…

Pugly: Hmm…

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Think on that one.

Mickey: Okay. [laughs]

Pugly: What the heck? Is this from personal experience or what? Where did that come from?

Mickey: No. No. I never blew up a laundry machine.

Pugly: Mmk.

Mickey: Okay. What’s going on?

Pugly: I don't know where that came from.

Mickey: I don't know. That was the only example I could think of.

Pugly: I see. So that's really the only harm that an 18-year-old could cause, and it's very rare.

Mickey: No, I mean, they could, they could, like, literally, like, get addicted to drugs—

Pugly: Get pregnant.

Mickey: They could get pregnant.

Poppy: Oh my God.

Mickey: Start clubbing and, like, be around the wrong crowd.

Pugly: They can do that in the same state too.

Mickey: I know, but they have you to be like, “How are you doing?” Like, “What's going on? Tell me how your life is going,” like…

Poppy: Yeah, but if you're in the same state and like city lines crossing, you, the chances of you still being able to live at home is high.

Mickey: That's true.

Poppy: It wouldn't require you to move out and have all of that independence and freedom—which, you know, I don't think an 18-year-old is ready for. Unless they've, like, proven themselves in other areas of their life. I can't say that all 18-year-olds are irresponsible and eager to, like, leave the house and do bad things. But that's a product of a foreign household.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: Is the itching for a taste of freedom.

Mickey: Yes.

Pugly: Yeah. Um, any last thoughts on, uh, stalker story?

Mickey: No, I…

Pugly: All good?

Mickey: Wish them well.

Poppy: Yeah, I hope it works out.

Pugly: Yeah.

Poppy: I hope she learned, I hope she learned something from this.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: What do you hope she learned?

Poppy: To just, you know…

Pugly: Stop lying?

Poppy: Stop lying. Don't, don't f, don't be a stalker.

Pugly: Don't be a stalker. [laughs]

Poppy: Or to just…

Pugly: I like it.

Poppy: Just sort of let it flow, you know? Just let it flow.

Pugly: Let it flow. Don't toss the salad, okay? It's unnecessary.

Poppy: Don't do that for yourself, girls. And guys.

Mickey: [laughs]

Poppy: But mostly girls today because what the heck, man?

Pugly: Well, we do have one last story if y’all are up for it. It’s very short.

Mickey: Um, I have to pee.

[Theme song]

Mickey: Okay. Whew!

Pugly: You ready to get back into it?

Mickey: Yes.

Pugly: Okay. We have one last story if y'all are up for it.

Poppy: Alright, let's hear it.

Poppy: Alright. This is: “How can I get my boyfriend to stop digging his tunnel?”

Poppy: Mmm…

Mickey: Uh… Is this a real tunnel? A metaphysical tunnel?

Poppy: I hope we're not talking about buttholes.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: What if her boyfriend is in Hamas or something? [laughs]

Poppy: Oh my God.

Pugly: Well, this was actually posted April 14th, 2022. Not that that changes the possibility, but just the context is a little different. She says, or I guess I'm assuming it's a she; I don't know that for a fact. So they say: So I know this is a weird question, but my boyfriend likes to spend a lot of his free time digging a tunnel on some property that he inherited. I haven't seen the full extent of it, but last I saw, it was remarkably deep under the surface. He’s spent roughly a year on it, and it's evident. The front of the thing is deep, wide, well put-together. At the front (which is the only part that I've seen), he’s got cement beams, electric lights, even chairs and a small table. I haven't gone into it, but it looked like the quality severely dropped as the tunnel went farther—mostly becoming open dirt with some wood beams holding it up.

My biggest concern is his safety. I'm really worried that he's going to dig too deep, and it'll collapse on him or something. I've tried voicing this concern to him, but he just laughs it off and it assures me that he'll be fine. Aside from safety concerns, there's also the fact that he doesn't really have a social life because of this thing. I'm pretty much the only person he still talks to outside of his job, and he doesn't go out and do anything anymore. It used to be that he'd occasionally head out and do some digging on the weekends, but now he spends almost all of his free time out there. He still comes home, but he barely spends any time with me, and I know that he isn't doing anything but digging that damn hole in ground.

This can't be good for his mental health, but I don't know how to convince him to stop. He's always really happy when he comes back from digging, which is why I haven't seriously tried to stop him before, but I was talking to a friend about him, and she told me he might be going crazy. Obviously, I don't think he's insane, but I hadn't considered the mental health aspect of this, and I just don't know what to do.

Mickey: What the fuck is he doing in this tunnel?

Poppy: Girl… He's digging into something, and it's not dirt.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] What does that mean?

Poppy: It's giving the girl who was obsessed with the gym.

Pugly: Oooh.

Mickey: You think he has a side piece?

Poppy: Yeah. Mhm.

Pugly: Mhm.

Poppy: I think that he has, yeah, I think that he is doing something that he's not act—that is not digging the tunnel.

Mickey: “He's always really happy when he comes back.” [laughs]

Poppy: From digging. Okay…

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] What is going on?

Poppy: He, they said it was a property that just like that he inherited or what? That became his?

Pugly: Yeah. Mhm. He inherited it.

Poppy: Could he be digging for something that he thinks is underground?

Mickey: Ooh, maybe.

Pugly: Maybe he's digging up to China.

Poppy: Oh my God. He's looking for the gold.

Mickey: You think he's making a bunker?

Poppy: Um, that I would—

Pugly: He didn’t state, but I guess. He could be.

Mickey: It's just weird that he doesn't have friends anymore because of it.

Pugly: Yeah. Why sacrifice your friends for a damn tunnel?

Mickey: Literally. Literally.

Poppy: That's why, that's why I think it's not a tunnel. I think it's like, you know…

Pugly: A girl.

Poppy: A girl. Or a guy, you know, whatever. Whatever it is, whatever, whatever you want to do.

Mickey: Whatever digs his tunnel. Um, does she like update with what she thinks he's doing or does she talk to him about it?

Pugly: There's actually no update on this one.

Mickey: Oh, Lord.

Poppy: Oh!

Pugly: One of the top comments says: If he doesn't have any training with confined spaces, he needs to stop ASAP. A potential collapse is possible, but if he digs deep and doesn't properly ventilate it, he could run out of oxygen and pass out and die without knowing what's happening. This is a very serious danger that kills people in mills, mines, and factories all the time even with ventilation installed. The air down there does not get refreshed like it does on the surface.

Wow.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: These are some real risks here.

Poppy: Yeah, that sounds like an experienced digger.

Pugly: [laughs] Indeed. Yeah.

Mickey: Wait, so, what if he's trying to like commit suicide?

Poppy: No…

Pugly: Are we doing a Big, sorry, a Big D philosophy here?

Mickey: [laughs] No, because like, what can you be digging for? Like, maybe he's digging himself his own grave and then he's gonna let it collapse on himself.

Pugly: Mhm… Intentionally?

Mickey: It’s possible!

Pugly: I mean, this is a strange way to go.

Mickey: It is, but he really loves digging. [laughs]

Poppy: [laughs] He's either looking for something like, as silly as it sounds like, you know, money or something down there or he is cheating.

Mickey: Mhm.

Mickey: How would you guys, how would you guys go about confronting him about this?

Pugly: Oof.

Poppy: It's either me or the shovel, man.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Oh God.

Pugly: Um, I might just be like, you know, I'm really—Oh, there's a tunnel picture.

Mickey: She, she posted it?

Pugly: Yeah, she posted a tunnel picture. I don't know how to share it with y’all. In the chat, I guess? It's not a great picture, to be honest, but I did just send it to you.

Mickey: Okay.

Poppy: Let's see.

Mickey: Oh, that's bigger than I expected.

Poppy: I don't really know what I'm looking at.

Pugly: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh… It looks kind of like a plunger just at the end there.

Poppy: Yeah.

Pugly: Or something.

Poppy: Is, is there, is that stairs or…?

Pugly: I think maybe they're stairs.

Mickey: No. Oh. Is that it? I'm looking at it as if it's like a landscape picture.

Pugly: Yeah, it is landscape, but I'm tilting my head to make it not.

Mickey: No, no. As if you took it upright landscape. But like, that beam is like, holding up. Like it's a support beam.

Pugly: Oh. Ohh.

Mickey: That's how I'm looking at it. I don't know. That’s weird.

Pugly: So he keeps pushing inward toward the beam is what you're saying?

Mickey: Yeah. Mhm.

Pugly: That's interesting.

Mickey: That’s what I saw.

Poppy: Okay, so he's just high on making this thing, basically.

Mickey: Maybe he goes here and gets high.

Pugly: Maybe. That's not safe, apparently, according to the ventilation expert.

Poppy: It's like, it's like guys who are addicted to video games, like this guy is addicted to building or making his tunnel, and all the progress he makes gives him some sort of dopamine release.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: That is such an interesting mental illness to have. I just can't even not say that, like… Where do people get this idea that building a tunnel is a good use of time?

Mickey: I don't know. It's just weird that he hasn't mentioned the reason to her.

Pugly: Yeah. As far as how to confront him, I might just be like, you know, “I'm starting to feel like I'm second place to this tunnel of yours, like, is there any way for you to prioritize this relationship over your tunnel?”

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: And also make your tunnel expedition a little more safe because I'm concerned about your safety.

Mickey: God, can you imagine—

Poppy: There's no way—

Mickey: Uh huh… I was just gonna say, can you imagine those words coming out of your mouth—"I just feel like second to your tunnel”? [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] No, I can't, I don't know that I would actually confront this person in that manner or I might just say, “Look, I'm feeling second to your tunnel, and I think this is time for us to break up as a result.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Pugly, you've wanted to break up with everybody today.

Pugly: Has there—Okay, today, yes, that’s true. I'm trying to think if there's been a single case where I, I've been, like, interested.

Mickey: No, you're usually pro-breakup.

Pugly: Okay… You’re right. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Well, maybe I'll try to find a story where I'm interested in keeping the relationship going with the person next time.

Mickey: Okay. [laughs]

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: Lol.

Poppy: It's fine. I mean—

Pugly: Okay, you wanted to stay with the stalker girl. Like, why? Why are you so into stalking?

Poppy: I'm not, but like, I don't know, it, it wouldn't…

Pugly: You said it was flattering.

Poppy: Well, only like 1%.

Pugly: [laughs]

Poppy: The rest of it is obviously like mental illness.

Pugly: Okay…

Poppy: You know, just a little bit of like, “Oh, you like me?”

Pugly: I mean, okay, in reality, it would depend on how long we were together—how I would handle the situation. If this was like a year-long relationship or shorter, I would have to nix it. Like, sorry, bro, but you're tunnel and you have to go.

Poppy: Right, right. You and the tunnel, yep.

Pugly: If this is like a decade-long relationship, we're talking something different. Like maybe this is a significant change in this guy's personality and like, we need to discuss more openly about this.

Poppy: Agreed. Agreed. It's… When you've, um, you know, dedicated more time and invested into a longer relationship, you're not gonna wanna just throw it away.

Pugly: Right.

Poppy: But, um…

Mickey: For a tunnel.

Poppy: Yeah… Unless he just like, digs the tunnel a little bit. What if he, what if that's his cheating spot? The tunnel he built. [laughs]

Pugly: Who would go there to cheat with him? That's gonna be uncomfortable.

Poppy: There are plenty of girls out here who are looking for love.

Pugly: Oh, I would, I would, uh, keep a relationship going with the sex worker from our, was it our last story or one of our stories?

Poppy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep.

Pugly: Yeah, I would date her.

Poppy: Pretty Woman. Pretty Woman.

Pugly: I would date Pretty Woman.

Poppy: Um, I don't, I don't think I would.

Pugly: Why wouldn't you?

Poppy: I don't know, I just don't think I could.

Pugly: Because of her past or because of her past occupation?

Poppy: Yeah, maybe.

Pugly: We discussed that kind of on the episode, actually. I, yeah, I, uh, I don't have any qualms with.

Poppy: I'm not a secure enough man for that.

Pugly: I'm a secure enough man.

Poppy: [laughs]

Pugly: Well, any, uh, any lasting thoughts on this damn tunnel?

Poppy: She, she should go with him.

Mickey: I, yeah… [laughs]

Poppy: She, she should go with him. She should ride there.

Mickey: [laughs] I wonder if he's gonna give up the tunnel for her is what I wonder.

Pugly: You think?

Poppy: He will not.

Pugly: “He will not.” Did you just say, “He will not”?

Poppy: He will not. He will not give up the tunnel for her.

Pugly: [laughs] I love that it's not, “He won't,” it's just, “He will not.”

Mickey: “He will not.” Yeah, I think he loves that thing too much. [laughs]

Poppy: Mhm.

Pugly: I mean, it does seem like there's a lot of commitment there. Like, that's a pretty deep tunnel.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: You were saying, like, men's brains are, like, not too big, like, they just want an activity, like, just give him a shovel and a tunnel. [laughs]

Pugly: It reminds me of when we worked for that potter, Mickey, when we worked for the potter and we made those little balls. Like that mindless task.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: It was kind of like that. Maybe he would enjoy that; that's a much safer activity.

Mickey: Mhm.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: God, imagine doing that, like, all the time as a hobby. I would never.

Poppy: Ew, it's gross.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. He, he could also just, like, literally get paid to dig holes. Like there's probably somewhere out there where you can get paid to dig holes.

Poppy: Plenty of jobs.

Mickey: If he’s passionate about it. Yeah.

Poppy: Plenty of jobs in construction. He can even play with, with the things, with the toys… Uh… What are they called?

Pugly: The toys. Equipment?

Mickey: Caterpillars?

Poppy: The Tonka trucks.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah.

Poppy: Imagine if he was out there building his tunnel and he took Tonka trucks out there. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] I can kind of see that.

Mickey: [laughs] I wouldn’t be surprised. Yeah.

Poppy: Comes back in such a much better mood. That's crazy.

Mickey: I mean, maybe it is just a healthy way to deal with things, I don't know. Who knows?

Poppy: [sighs]

Pugly: Alright, well, Mickey, you wanna wrap us up?

Mickey: Yeah. I, this one was a good one.

Poppy: Mhm.

Mickey: I love laughing at people and knowing that my life could be worse. And my personality could be worse.

Poppy: I hope you feel better about yourself today because these are some wackadoodles.

Mickey: I went swimming today.

Poppy: Oh, wow.

Mickey: That was my hobby. [laughs] And these people in their free time are stalking, digging… And what was the first one? Oh, being a conspiracy theorist slash like criminal?

Poppy: Homewrecker.

Pugly: Yeah. Detective Homewrecker.

Poppy: Detective Homewrecker, exactly. Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. Maybe I'm good with my life not being exciting. It's fine.

Poppy: No, it's exciting!

Pugly: If this is the alternative, I agree.

Mickey: Yeah.

Poppy: Yeah.

Mickey: I'm like I had such a quiet Sunday, like swimming, sitting in the sun… That's fine. I'm okay with that versus all this commotion.

Poppy: Yep. Yep. It was a good one though. I, I like this theme. I would do obsessions again.

Mickey: Me too.

Poppy: I liked it. I liked it a lot.

Mickey: Alright, thank you girls. Thank you guys for listening. Send us your confessions! When are they coming in? We’re eager.

Pugly: Yeah, we did get that one that said “Test,” but that's not really a, a juicy confession, so we’re waiting for some more.

Poppy: Please send them, send them.

Mickey: Literally. We would love to give our really important insight into your life, into your confessions. Alright, we'll see you next episode.

Poppy: Bye.

Mickey: Bye.

Pugly: Bye.

Mickey: Bye. [laughs]

[Theme song]