Pugly: Welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Confessions, everyone.

Mickey: Welcome back. Um, we have a pretty special episode planned for you guys. Um, although we're down one member.

Pugly: Oof. Yeah, that was, she's a goner. [laughs]

Mickey: No, she's not a goner. We just, we're like bored. We literally had nothing to do, so we said—

Pugly: “Let's just record.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Give the people what they want.

Mickey: Give the people what they want, and, uh, we have a pretty special theme today. What is it, Pugly?

Pugly: The theme today is going to be… pizza!

Mickey: [laughs] Pizza. Very dramatic theme.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah, I can, I can already tell it's going to be cheesy. [laughs]

[Theme song]

Mickey: So here's episode 18: the pizza episode. A Slice of Life. Y'all, I came up with “A Slice of Life,” Pugly was like, “What? Okay, we're going to do a pizza episode. What are some titles we could do?”

Pugly: Pizza, Pizza.

Mickey: Yeah, she had a lot, you know…

Pugly: Pizza. The Pizza Episode. [laughs]

Mickey: Yeah. Wow. Some really genius ones.

Pugly: Thought-provoking.

Mickey: And I—yes, and I said, “What about A Slice of Life?” And she was like, “Haha, no.”

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Well, look where we are.

Pugly: Here we are.

Mickey: Here we are.

Pugly: A Slice of Life.

Mickey: A Slice of Life. [laughs] Um, so I guess all the stories you have for us today are pizza episode. I mean, pizza-themed. [laughs]

Pugly: Pizza-themed, you are correct. Yes, indeed. They have something to do with pizza, whether peripherally or centrally.

Mickey: So, not always main character.

Pugly: Not always main character.

Mickey: Hm… Alright.

Pugly: And actually, I haven't decided specifically on which stories we're going to be reading today, so I'll throw it up to you to decide between two every now and then.

Mickey: Okay. Um, I also want to say—maybe controversial, and audience let us know, what do you guys think—is pizza overrated?

Pugly: [gasps] How could you?

Mickey: [laughs] I feel like it is.

Pugly: You are a dimwit.

Mickey: [laughs] I mean, I love pizza, but I'm just not like…

Pugly: You do not love it. Don't lie.

Mickey: No, I love good pizza. I love—

Pugly: Don’t lie to our dear listeners.

Mickey: I am not, I never lied in my life, okay? How dare thee? Um, no, but I love pizza. I just like, I'm not a bread girl, so I can't have too much bread, and pizza is literally just all bread.

Pugly: Can't relate.

Mickey: I get tired of it.

Pugly: Cannot relate to this non-bread girl. What the hell?

Mickey: I, I'm a prehistoric meat and vegetables girl, you know? Back when they discovered fire, and they discovered how to roast meat over fire. I would, I would love that era.

Pugly: [scoffs]

Mickey: You wouldn’t?

Pugly: Hot take.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: No, I don't think I would. Um, I think we've advanced in some ways ethically that I… Well— Questionable.

Mickey: I don’t know about that.

Pugly: —questionable.

Mickey: [laughs] I don't know about that. I mean, you know, every era has its drawbacks.

Mickey: They didn't have electricity back then.

Pugly: Yeah, that would be a major hindrance for me.

Mickey: Yeah, I'm anemic, so…

Pugly: Um, well, shall we dive in?

Mickey: Yeah, let's cook up a pizza. I don't know. I was trying to… Let's cut a slice.

Pugly: Let's cut a slice.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Alright. Well, this one I do want to start with for sure. Um, this one is titled: “Am I the asshole for confronting a kid over pizza?”

Mickey: Ohh, I don't know. May… maybe. Yes. Well, we'll see.

Pugly: Alright. This was posted nearly a year ago on December 12th, 2023.

Mickey: Okay.

Pugly: My son (7) made new friends this school year. Sometimes he invites 3-4 boys for a sleepover at my house during the weekend. On these weekends, I order two large pizzas and soda for them.

Wednesday morning, I get a text message from one of the moms who asked if her son (T) could spend the night. They live in the same neighborhood, so I figured it wouldn't be a big deal. I assumed something was going on at their house and they needed the kid out of their way.

I picked my son and T up. We get home, and they run upstairs to go play video games while I get started on dinner. I made a box dinner with sides. I call everyone down for dinner. I hand T his plate. He doesn't say “Thank you” or look at me; he walks to the table and sits down. I'm thinking, “Okay, rude, but whatever.” T doesn't touch his food. I asked him if everything was okay. He asks, “Are we gonna have pizza later tonight?” I say, “Sorry, pizza is for the weekend when everybody comes over.” He said nothing and followed my son upstairs to play more games later. When I'm washing dishes, my son comes up to me and says, “T says he wants to go home.” I asked why. My son just shrugs.

I go upstairs and ask T if he wanted to go home. He said yeah. I asked why when he asked his mom to let him stay on a school night. He just shrugs and doesn't look at me but continues watching YouTube. I asked did he only want to spend the night because he thought pizza would be for dinner? He shrugs again, not looking at me. I said, “T, look at me and answer now. Did you only come here because you thought you were going to eat pizza?” He finally nods but still doesn't look at me. I told him, I'm sorry we're not having pizza tonight, but he can still have fun with my son. He says, “No thanks, I really want to go home.” I asked him, “T, if I decided that there would be no more pizza during sleepovers, would you still come over?” He thinks about it for a second and then shakes his head no. I told him that it's not okay to use people like that, and that if he doesn't really want to be my son's friend and is only using him to get pizza, then he's no longer allowed to come over. He just shrugs and says okay. I called his mom to pick him up. I explained to her what was going on. She seemed understanding (and a bit irritated) and picked him up within the hour.

The next morning, I get a text from her saying I had no right to yell at her son like that and I’m being petty over pizza. I asked her what the fuck she was talking about and I did certainly not yell at him. I explained to T that it was not okay to act like he wanted to be friends with someone in order to get things he wanted, and it's manipulative and bad. She messages back, “How the fuck you think the world works? By the way, good job thinking a 7-year-old knows what manipulative is. Such a good mommy!” I haven't replied back because now I know where T gets it. But I've been thinking all week if I was the asshole in this situation, and should I have just not said anything to T?

Mickey: Hm…

Pugly: Pizza drama.

Mickey: Pizza drama! I was just talking with my friend, actually. One of them, she has a kid, and she was telling me how, when you have a child, like your life just gets so much more complicated. And that is so true. It's like… Did, did this OP ever think that one day she would be out here having pizza drama with her neighbor because of their kids? [laughs]

Pugly: Probably not. I don't think that would be on my… bucket list either.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs]

Pugly: Pre-child.

Mickey: Yeah.

[Cat meows]

Mickey: Oh! [laughs] Should we let her in?

Pugly: I knew it. Yeah, let's let her in. Pipsqueak. My, my child is here. Anyway…

Mickey: Um…

Pugly: So yeah, life gets more complicated once you have a child.

Mickey: It really does. Even the little things get more complicated.

Pugly: Like trying to record a podcast, for instance.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] You have a cat. You don’t have a child.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: Honestly, I think she's an asshole. TBH.

Pugly: Which one?

Mickey: The… Like the OP.

Pugly: Ooh. Hot take.

Mickey: Hot take. Is that so?

Pugly: I think.

Mickey: Well, I think obviously like, the little kid, her son's friend, is an asshole too. Yeah, but he's a child. He's like 7. Um… And that is something that is so important. It is never your job to like—especially if they're not your family members—to teach other people's childrens. “Childrens.” [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] “Them childrens.”

Mickey: Um, no, it's not your job. It's, it's like you can, you can teach your child how to react to that kid, but it's not your job to be to like be like, “Hey, this is not cool,” because all you can do is you talk to his mom and be like, “Hey, like, it looks like he doesn't want to stay over unless there's pizza and, you know, that's making my son sad, so… Um, that makes me sad,” you know?

Pugly: Why can't, why is that all you can do? She did something beyond that, and I think it was an appropriate move.

Mickey: No, I just think that, like, what is he going to learn from this woman? He's not going to learn.

Pugly: Maybe not. But I mean, how is he gonna learn any more from his mom saying the same thing?

Mickey: I mean, it's not her job to teach him. It's the mom's job to teach him—like the neighbor mom to teach him.

Pugly: Well, I guess we have a fundamental disagreement here.

Mickey: I mean, I… [sighs] absolutely agree that it takes a village and that it's not just you who, who should be teaching your child how to behave, but it would tick me off—like let's say, okay, so you and I agree with the lesson that this lady is teaching the neighbor kid.

Pugly: That the kid should not take advantage of somebody for pizza.

Mickey: Yeah. But let's say we disagreed with the lesson. Let's say she, um… He wanted to go home because, you know, there was loud noises, and he was scared, and the lady, the poster, thought, “No, you have to stay here no matter what you want.” Like, even if you're uncomfortable. And that was the lesson. Well, it wouldn't be okay for her to teach him that. Like you and I would disagree with that policy at that point.

Pugly: So she's not allowed to teach him any lessons whatsoever is what you're saying.

Mickey: Like, directly. Like, obviously you can teach people lessons just by behaving in a certain way in front of them. Like, behaving like a moral, upstanding person in front of children teaches them to be that way as well, inadvertently. But like, sitting a child down and being like, “You can't do this, you can do that.” That is not—neither your responsibility nor your right, I don’t think, unless you’re family of that child or a really close friend, you know?

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: That's how I feel. Because what if she's, what if she was teaching him, like, “No, you actually… it doesn't matter, like, if you're uncomfortable with how we talk around here, you have to stay home with us.” I mean, then we would be like, yeah, she can't talk to him like that, you know?

Pugly: But that's a whole different scenario. You're acting like these are equivalent because of what, exactly? Like, why are these situations equivalent in your eyes?

Mickey: Because, like, I think, because she's overstepping. It's not her place to be teaching this kid any kind of like life lesson. You know? Even though I agree with the life lesson. I just think it's the, it's a parent's responsibility or a family's responsibility to teach their children how to behave.

Pugly: I guess my view is if the parent disagrees with the OP’s approach or with the lesson that they've taught the child or attempted to teach the child—

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: —then it's their responsibility to say, “No, well, we don't really believe that that's like the way to act in this household,” like…

Mickey: Yeah. No, that's true.

Pugly: You can't expect that your child's not going to go out into the world and learn things—

Mickey: And be exposed to things. No, absolutely. I agree with you. And I don't think the mom's, like the neighbor mom, her reaction was like, warranted, like she shouldn't be that mad.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Um… But at the same time, I think it started with the poster. Like she, you know, she can talk to her own kid. Why is she talking to this other person's kid? Unless… I mean, like, look if he was like hitting her kid, that's different, like, okay, “Hey, we don't hit each other,” you know? I feel like that's pretty vital to address then and there.

Pugly: Okay. But why?

Mickey: Because someone, he's putting someone in danger.

Pugly: I think more of it as a universal principle that violence is not a good thing.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: And so that's the reason why. And again, I think being non-manipulative as a person is a universal principle as being core to being a decent human being.

Mickey: Well, uh… People are manipulative all the time in not negative ways.

Pugly: But this is a negative way.

Mickey: This is a negative way. Yeah.

Pugly: We can all agree.

Mickey: No, yeah, that's true.

Pugly: Taking advantage of somebody to be their “friend” for the purposes only of eating pizza is not a healthy manipulation.

Mickey: Yeah, no, it's true. I… like… yes, it's like I said, I agree with the life lesson. I just don't think it's her place.

Pugly: Okay. Well, let's see what the top comments say.

Mickey: Alright, let's see.

Mickey: Maleficent_Young_355 says: “When I was little, I briefly had this one friend who was much more wealthy than I was, and I was always so amazed by all the cool toys he had. One time, after gushing about them to my mom after a playdate, she took the time to ask me, “Do you want to play with [friend] because of his toys or because you like to spend time with him?” and I thought about it and said, “I think both?” I remember she talked to me about how it's okay to enjoy things that belong to your friends, but it's not okay to be “friends” with someone JUST because of the things they have. Anyway, basically, yeah, NTA, this is a concept that children absolutely can understand and should be taught.

Mickey: Yeah, I agree with that. They can and should be taught that. I think I just disagree with everyone in the story.

Pugly: [laughs] So everyone, everyone sucks here.

Mickey: Yeah, everyone sucks, except for the kid who's the son of the poster.

Pugly: Oh, okay. The one who was just trying to have a friend.

Mickey: Yeah. Free him. [laughs]  No, I'm not saying the poster is an asshole. I'm just saying, like… of course, people are going to get offended if you talk to their child. Especially if you're not close. Like, if it was my sister telling my kid that, okay, go right ahead. I don't care. But my neighbor who I don't really, I'm not close to…

Pugly: Well, we don't know their relationship really.

Mickey: No, she said like that's why he slept over is because they're like… they live close to each other, and they're in the same class. That's it.

Pugly: I'm not sure as a parent I would have picked up on the fact that this kid was manipulating. Like, at that age too? I would not, that would not be my first assumption.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Because I would think “Maybe he's upset because his parents are arguing at home and that's impacting his day-to-day life,” or whatever…

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. And maybe—I don't think any child knows, like, “Yeah, I wouldn’t hang out with him unless there's pizza.” Like, if there's pizza involved, like, as a kid, you're like, “Yeah, of course I'll be there.” Right? Because it’s exciting. But then if somebody has a, somebody asks a little kid, “Would you hang out with this person if there’s no pizza?” How do you trust that answer? They're like a 7-year-old. You know what I mean? Can they really think about things like that?

Pugly: Well, I think he did say something like, “I don't know” or something… vague like that.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: So it's like, how did you come to this conclusion? I don't really understand that, the mechanisms of that, but, um, SaladCzarSlytherin said: “Not the asshole. You weren't yelling. You were asking questions. Also, asking someone if he only hangs out for pizza is a fair question. You're showing your son how to identify fake friends.”

Mickey: Yeah. But it's not the, that part that got the neighbor mad.

Pugly: So maybe, maybe is what you're saying that the OP should confront their own child about, you know, I spoke with T, and he said that he was really only interested in pizza, and I think it's important to realize, like, when people are only over here for reasons other than hanging out and being friends.

Mickey: Mhm. I don't know if… I think that's too soon at 7 years old to go that far, but I think as a parent, you can be, you can steer your child towards other friends at that age. And then, like, you know, a few years down the line, that, that's when you should maybe start being like, “Yeah, you know, some people kind of, uh, care more about themselves than other people and, or, than have, than their friends,” you know? Like, introduce it slowly. Like, I don't think you should tell a child—

Pugly: “This guy doesn't like you.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: “T doesn't like you.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Mickey: That's, like, really harmful, I feel like… I don't know.

Pugly: Yeah. I mean, I think normalizing it—I just said, “I fink” [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] “I fink that normalizing it…” [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] “I fink normalizing it is good because…” Um, because… Fuck, I don't even remember.

Mickey: No, it's important to teach your children that not everyone's going to like them, for sure.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: And that's okay.

Pugly: And it's normal.

Mickey: And it doesn't impact your value as a person.

Pugly: Right.

Mickey: Yeah. No, but I don't think learning as a 7-year-old that your friend who's sleeping over, which is probably so exciting to you, doesn't like you. I don't think that's helpful at all.

Pugly: Yeah…

Mickey: I think it's like…

Pugly: Okay. Maybe it's just that he likes pizza more than you.

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, we, uh, little T, you know, all he cares about is pizza, you know. “Oh, you guys, I know you like to play games, so maybe you can invite little M over next.” Like, I don't know…

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah, something like that.

[Theme song]

Pugly: Well, would you like to explore pizza in the wedding setting?

Mickey: I mean, we all wanna hear it. Do we wanna eat pizza at a wedding? Mmm…

Pugly: You can ask. Conscious-Option-400 for the answer to that.

Mickey: Uh… Yeah.

Pugly: Alright. Conscious-Option-400 says: “AITA for serving only vegan food at my wedding without telling anyone, then getting upset when my family ordered 20 pizzas during the reception?”

Mickey: Woof. [laughs] Uh, wow. Classic vegans against the world story. [laughs]

Pugly: Yep. Indeed.

Mickey: Let's see. Let's wait and see who's right here.

Pugly: Okay. Well, this was posted less than a month ago.

Mickey: Hm… In this economy? Okay, go ahead.

Pugly: I know. Wait until the part where she actually describes how much she actually spent on this damn vegan wedding.

Mickey: Oh God.

Pugly: Alright. Well, she says: “I (28F) just had my wedding last weekend. My husband (30M) and I have been vegan for three years, and we decided to have an all-vegan reception dinner. We spent months working with an amazing chef to create a gourmet five-course meal that just happened to be vegan. Think mushroom wellington, truffle risotto, roasted vegetable tarts, etc. We spent nearly $15,000 on the food alone.

Mickey: Damn. How many people?

Pugly: Girl…

Mickey: No, because we need to do the math because sometimes that is like normal. Go ahead…

Pugly: In what world?

Mickey: 150 per plate? [laughs]

Pugly: Alright. We deliberately didn't mention the food was vegan on the invitations because we wanted people to enjoy it without prejudice. Every dish was designed to be delicious and satisfying, regardless of dietary preference.

The ceremony was beautiful, but during the reception, I noticed my brother Tom (32M) wasn't at his table. Twenty minutes later, I watched in horror as he and my cousins walked in carrying 20 large pizzas. They started distributing them to guests, announcing, “Real food for anyone who wants it!”

Mickey: Oh my God…

Pugly: I was mortified. The caterers looked so embarrassed, and several guests hadn't even tried our carefully planned menu yet. When I confronted Tom, he said my aunt had texted him that, “All the food is just vegetables,” and they “couldn't let people go hungry at a wedding.”

The pizza completely upstaged our expensive gourmet meal. People were taking photos and treating it like a joke. My mother-in-law posted on Facebook about how her son's wedding was “saved by pizza” because the bride tried to “force everyone to eat rabbit food.”

I ended up crying in the bathroom, and my husband asked Tom and the cousins to leave. This caused a scene, and now half the family is calling us stuck-up and saying we ruined our own wedding by “pushing our beliefs” on everyone. They're saying we should have warned people about the vegan menu.

AITA for not announcing the menu was vegan, and then getting upset about the pizza?

Mickey: No! What an asshole family.

Pugly: Really! Truthfully, like you can't just try vegan food one time?

Mickey: One meal. You can't have one meal that you don't like.

Pugly: Ridiculous.

Mickey: Yeah, that's stupid. No one asked before, like they didn't care. So why do you care now?

Pugly: They didn't say, “Hey, we know you're vegan, and you have been for a decade,” or whatever the hell she said. “Are you going to have a vegan menu?”

Mickey: That's so rude. I mean, it's so rude to go to someone's house and they make dinner, and you order food instead of it because you're like, “Oh, this is not real food,” this is not—

Pugly: Okay, but TBH, that would be me in an Indian food setting.

Mickey: No, but at someone's house, like, they made you Indian food at home, you would order pizza?

Pugly: Indian food at home is the spiciest shit I've ever had.

Mickey: Okay, I know. But you would not order pizza. You would not be like, “Oh my God. Like, uh, yeah, this is not real food,” or whatever. Like, “This is not sufficient for me. I'm going to order food.” You would just, like, not eat. Yeah, you would just not eat and like eat later.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do.

Pugly: Or leave the wedding early, you know? Leave the reception early.

Mickey: Yeah! I mean, like I get that there is this thing about weddings are a community event where you get to host your community members like for your wedding, and so your family is very heavily invested. I get the whole, “We're not going to let people starve,” like that mentality, but they're not starving, there's food. There's food.

Pugly: Literally, there's food that was a fortune.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah, so I don't, I don't understand. [clears throat] Excuse me. And like pizza’s not even, like… [laughs] It's not even like, “Wow,” like, it's just pizza. It's like cheese and bread.

Pugly: Here we go again.

Mickey: Like… [laughs] Sorry, sorry to pizza, but like, you're just pizza, you're just pizza. [laughs]

Pugly: Oh my God.

Mickey: I’m like having a meltdown.

Pugly: I can't believe we're dedicating a whole episode to pizza, and you are just thrashing…

Mickey: No. Thrashing? [laughs]

Pugly: What is the word? [laughs]

Mickey: Trashing?

Pugly: [laughs] Okay. Yes.

Mickey: No, I just think that… like, no, I love pizza. I love pizza.

Pugly: [laughs] I'm sorry, just the thrashing thing has me.

Mickey: Yeah. Pizza's great. It's just that, um, you are really going to put down like a gourmet meal for pizza? You're going to say, “Oh, pizza's here to save the day”? How is pizza saving your day? It's also vegetarian, by the way. It's not vegan, but it's vegetarian.

Pugly: Well, depending on what toppings.

Mickey: Oh, pepperoni, I forgot that Americans love putting pork on everything. Sorry, that's my rant. Um… No, because it's quite annoying. It's quite annoying. Why is there pork in everything? Like literally everything. And pepperoni, does it really add that much? No. No, it doesn't. So shut up and eat your rabbit food. Like the rest of us. Just fucking eat the fucking rabbit food!

Pugly: Or don't. Or don't eat.

Mickey: Or don’t, like…

Pugly: But don't ruin somebody's—

Mickey: Really!

Pugly: —aesthetic and, like, their plans just to… satiate your palate.

Mickey: Mhm. And then the fact that they started a scene? Oh my God.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Wow. And they—okay, it would be one thing if they talked to her first or both of them, but since they're both vegan, the bride and groom, and said like, “You guys, there's some people complaining, do you mind if we have some pizza?” and they did it discreetly…

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: I think me as a bride, even if I had put my heart and soul into this menu, whatever, I would be like, “Well, okay, just like let's do it after the dancing starts. Order the food after the dancing starts so they can at least try and enjoy it.” But then, you know, whatever, order whatever, and put it in the back, and just tell people discreetly.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Because I don't want to upstage all the hard work, but like, fucking ask her.

Pugly: Don't order pizza for everybody and assume that they are not going to partake in this vegan menu.

Mickey: Yeah. Just because you don't like it.

Pugly: You don't even know that you don't like it because you didn't even fucking try it.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. He was like, “Oh, the aunt told me that it's all rabbit food,” or whatever. Like, you didn't even see it yourself?

Pugly: Or try it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Put it in your mouth before you decide.

Mickey: That's what she said.

Pugly: Yep. AlwaysHelpful22 said: “Be honest. You didn't tell anyone about the menu because you knew they wouldn't like it/come if you did. This doesn't make you an AH, but people could have eaten beforehand if they knew the menus weren’t to their liking.”

Mickey: Whatever.

Pugly: Maybe when you attend a wedding, it's their day. So let them have their day.

Mickey: Really!

Pugly: It's not about you.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah, I'm usually like a vegan hater, but like today… yeah, this is unfair. This is unfair. Nuh uh. Justice for vegans.

Pugly: [laughs] Chay_Charles said: “$15,000 on food at a wedding?! What a waste of money.”

Mickey: I mean, okay, can these people wake up? I get so triggered about this. Like, can these people wake up and actually talk to a caterer? Like literally just call a caterer. Everyone who comments on these prices, like call a caterer, like the cheapest caterer in your town. Ask them how much they cater for a wedding. As soon as you say the word “wedding”—and you cannot avoid it—they just immediately 100+. 100+ a plate.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: Yeah, there is no way you're getting out of it without 15,000.

Pugly: If you have a large wedding is what you're saying.

Mickey: I mean…

Pugly: You can get out of it by going to the courthouse.

Mickey: Yeah, of course. When you say a large wedding, I mean, between 100-150 people, that's not a large wedding.

Pugly: I feel like that’s large.

Mickey: That's like a mid-size wedding.

Pugly: I, ugh…

Mickey: Middle Eastern weddings typically like 500 people. No, I mean, but that's a large wedding. That's a large wedding. I've heard of weddings that are like 1,000 people. Like, that’s not, that’s…

Pugly: How do you even know 1,000?

Mickey: That’s XL. Oh, no, I mean, that's like, and they're cutting out a lot of people.

Pugly: Okay… Whatever.

Mickey: No, like, that's the reality of things. Americans have to understand like small weddings, like, less than 100, is a very American Western thing. It's not common around the world. Right?

Pugly: I don't know anything about weddings around the world.

Mickey: Just like, whenever I hear Western people complain about wedding size, like wedding party sizes or sorry, like reception sizes, and it's like 50 people, I'm like, are you fucking kidding? Like, there's only 50 people that you had to invite to your wedding and you're complaining, you know? Sorry, I'm triggered. Okay, I’ll calm down.

Pugly: I just want it to be more intimate and people that I…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: You know, care about.

Mickey: And no, obviously. But when it's that big, it's so fun.

Pugly: I really, I honestly, at this point, like the older I get, the more I'm like I would rather not even have a wedding. I just want a house.

Mickey: Oh my God. Good for you. Good for you. Me too, I want… But I want it all.

Pugly: It’s the simple things.

Mickey: [sings] Give me the simple life. Me, me, potatoes, and mashed potatoes. Nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh.

Pugly: Well…

Mickey: [hums] Give me the simple life. Yalla, go.

Pugly: Are you ready for this next one?

Mickey: Yeah, that was a doozy.

Pugly: Was it?

Mickey: Yep. That last one.

Pugly: But you had a very definitive position on it.

Mickey: Yeah. And you did too. I feel like we had the same position.

Pugly: We did.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: But I just feel like I wasn't a doozy because of that.

Mickey: No, it was just a doozy as in like it got me mad.

Pugly: Oh…

Mickey: People get me so mad these days.

Pugly: It was more the comments that had ya.

Mickey: Yeah. What the hell?

[Theme song]

Pugly: So we have a choice between two articles.

Mickey: I love choices.

Pugly: Or posts, as many call them.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Um, the first is titled: “AITA for refusing to share pizza with my pregnant wife?” or, “AITA for reporting the pizza delivery guy for sliding a note under my girlfriend's door?”

Mickey: Ooh… The first one is definitely going to get me even more triggered, and I'm already there. I'm so mad.

Pugly: I like it.

Mickey: Um, the second one will be funny, I’m thinking. I kind of want to go funny. [laughs]

Pugly: Alright, so this is titled: “AITA for reporting the pizza delivery guy for sliding a note under my girlfriend's door?” This was posted in April of 2022.

Mickey: Hm…

Pugly: I (28M) was spending the weekend with my girlfriend at her place. We decided to order some pizza, and she ordered from her usual restaurant.

When the delivery guy arrived, I opened the door and he looked at me confused, then proceeded to ask where [girlfriend's name] was. I said, “Excuse me?” and asked why he was asking, and he said nothing. It was just that he's used to delivering pizza to her, and this is the first he saw me, so he thought she moved. I told him she was busy, then took the pizza and gave him money, and while I was turning, I saw him still standing. I asked how can I help, and he said, “Don't mind me, I’m just standing here waiting.” I told him he shouldn't keep standing outside like that, and he rudely said it wasn't my property. I got angry, but didn't want to escalate, so I said this wasn't public property, and he should LEAVE. I then went inside and shut the door.

Ten minutes later, I caught a note getting slid under the door. I went to look and open the door and saw the pizza guy going downstairs. I stopped him immediately and then read what the note said. He kept calling my girlfriend with her name and said that he was worried about her and how sad he was that he didn't see her this time. I asked if he left this note just to confirm, then told him I'd report him to his boss for this behavior. He said this wasn't for me, and I'm not the owner of this place, so it was none of my business. We argued loud enough for my girlfriend to come out.

I told her what he did, and she told me to leave it alone and go back inside. I said, “Alright then,” but as soon as I walked in, I called his workplace and wanted to speak to the manager. I told him what that guy did, and he promised to take care of it and said that he won't be working for them anymore. Don't know if he was just telling me what I wanted to hear, but when I told my girlfriend, she got mad, saying I shouldn't have done this and escalated by getting the dude fired. I asked if she was okay with what he did, and she said no, but now she can no longer order from this restaurant as they block any customer that complains. I said maybe good riddance then? She said I overreacted and had no right to do this when it's not even my apartment. I didn't know what to say, but she completely shut down and refused to talk to me except to say I'm being too insecure and petty.

Mickey: Okay, I'm not going to lie. That's not the direction I thought this story was going in, by the title. I was, I was ready to call him an asshole.

Pugly: Oh, from the title alone?

Mickey: From the title because I thought like, um, maybe like the delivery person saw her at the door and she received the order, like the pizza order, and then he just slid his number under the door. Like, I think that's not too bad. Like, it's awkward that he knows where you live, obviously, but I don't think like, how else are you going to meet people? Like I feel like… Like, I don't know.

Pugly: That's why I get a job as a pizza delivery guy. [laughs]

Mickey: No, okay, but let's say you—I think there's… Romance is dead in these days. But like, if you meet someone and you think they're really cute, what's wrong about giving them your phone number? You don’t—

Pugly: I agree.

Mickey: You don't have to, like—

Pugly: As long as you're not pushy about it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: If you're just giving them, putting the ball in their court, that's fine.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. But that's not what happened, obviously. [laughs]

Pugly: What happened?

Mickey: What happened was that this guy is so weird, and he's creepy.

Pugly: The delivery guy?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: I don't know. I just think it's weird that he asked for her, first of all. It's weird that he was like, “Don't worry about it. I'm going to wait here. It's public property.” Um, it's weird that, like, he slid that thing about the note about, um, I'm worried about you. Like, what else did he say?

Pugly: Um, he's sad that he didn't see her this time.

Mickey: Yeah. Like, literally, you just talked to her boyfriend, like, that's so weird. Isn't that weird?

Pugly: That is weird. Verified.

Mickey: Like, maybe he could have been like, “Well, do you mind calling her? Like, I need to say something,” but then that even would still be weird.

Pugly: Yeah. What does he want with her?

Mickey: Yeah. I don't know. What does he want with her? You think he wants to be with her? It feels that way.

Pugly: I agree. But, like, does he not feel like, okay, she's off limits now because she has clearly a partner?

Mickey: I don't know. [laughs] Well, it makes me question, like, is there something going on between them?

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: Especially because she got defensive. No, obviously, no. I would still have gotten defensive if I, if I was her, because I feel like ultimately it's up to me because I'm the one… look or like, it should be a discussion, what should happen, you know? He shouldn't just automatically call, like, he should check in with me and see how I'm feeling about it.

Pugly: The boyfriend?

Mickey: The boyfriend, yeah. Maybe, like, maybe this delivery driver is like, you know—

Pugly: An old friend.

Mickey: —an old friend or mentally handicapped or something. I don't know. Maybe she's like… She has some…

Pugly: Sympathy?

Mickey: Sympathy for him. Um, so, like, I feel like, I mean, I don't know, you know, the boyfriend obviously knows more about the driver here, but like, I feel like it should just be a discussion. Now I'm still suspicious of her and the driver. But yeah, I don't… [sighs] I don't think he's an asshole for getting mad at the driver.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: Or like putting boundaries down, like saying like, “Hey, this is, that's enough. Thank you. You did your job.” Like I, you know…

Pugly: “I got the pizza.”

Mickey: “Got the pizza. Got it.” Yeah. That’s fine. That's more than fine. Now, I don't know. What do you think about the calling him and getting him fired or calling his job and getting him fired?

Pugly: That definitely seems extreme, especially given the fact that, like you say, they haven't had a discussion; he and his girlfriend haven't had a discussion about, you know, the impact that this had on her or how she feels about this man, the delivery driver. Um, and if she's uncomfortable or not, like it seems like she wanted to manage this situation on her own without interference by the boyfriend.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: And he kind of took it upon himself to just fucking get this guy fired.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: And now he's ruined her, one of her—was it her favorite restaurant or something? Like, a restaurant she regularly calls.

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. That's the, the reaction I think is over.

Pugly: Over the top.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Yeah. Jealousy is never a good look.

Mickey: [laughs] It is a little bit when it's, like, mild. Mild jealousy is nice.

Pugly: It's not a good look even then.

Mickey: Really?

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: It's not flattering for the person. It's flattering for the person who's…

Pugly: Being envied.

Mickey: Jealoused of?

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Um, hm… That's the tricky one.

Pugly: What do you think about the firing? Was that necessary?

Mickey: No, I don't think—I mean, I don't know.

Pugly: Or justified?

Mickey: I don't think he should have gotten fired, or he should… I mean, he, he called and complained and said, “Can you fire him?” right?

Pugly: He called and complained. I don't know if he specifically requested him getting fired.

Mickey: Yeah… Again, like, we were talking the other, just the other day with Poppy about how, with a lot of these, like men, you know, their behavior could go either way: it could be predatory or it could be, you know, trying to help. But it's weird that it's again and again. Like, why does he keep looking for her, asking for her? Why is he persistent after the boyfriend told him, “Okay, thanks. You can go now”? He still stayed, and he sent a little letter or like a note. That persistence is scary.

Pugly: Yes. Agreed. Especially, like you said earlier, in the context of him knowing where she lives.

Mickey: Yeah. That's weird. And I would, if I were the boyfriend, I would be like, “I'm worried about you because he knows where you live, and it's weird that he's, like, waiting for you.” Like, that's how you maturely handle a situation, but blowing up and being like, “Oh, I'm going to call…” He didn't even ask her, he just called, he called the—

Pugly: Exactly.

Mickey: Yeah. That's weird. It's like, I mean, obviously this is not the same at all, but when somebody is assaulted, especially, like, sexually assaulted, and they confide in someone and they tell the person, “Well, I don't want to report it,” you have to respect that.

Pugly: If they're an adult, for sure.

Mickey: If they're an adult, yeah. But, like, you have to respect that. It was, it's them, it's, they're the ones who are like the victim or whatever.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: So, like, you have to respect that, and…

Pugly: And they've also already had their autonomy taken from them, and so for you to take it away from them a second time by reporting on their behalf against their will is like, such a betrayal of sorts.

Mickey: That's so true. Yeah. So I feel like that's, that's the thing with people who, um, are jealous/controlling in this way. Like, I don't think he's controlling, but he, he went ahead and acted, reacted through his jealousy without seeing what she wanted, and he is, like you said, taking away… Like, not only is she getting a creepy guy at her door, but also her boyfriend's not being supportive in the correct way. So, like, now she's like, instead of having support from her boyfriend, she's having to deal with him as well.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: You know?

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: That's, that's the thing: when you… You know, a big part of maturing is knowing how to support people appropriately.

Pugly: Yeah. Um, there was an edit on this post. Um, he said: “Something else is going on? I don't know, but from his attitude, it did seem like he knew her well enough to act this comfortably. I tried to talk to him, like asking if I could help, but he shut me down completely, acting like I'm not even there. I wanted to get more clarification from my girlfriend, but she refused, and I didn't want to pressure her.

Also, I doubt that the guy lost his job and also doubt that my girlfriend was “blocked” as a customer. As for the note, it was him addressing her directly saying he's worried and that he was sad he didn't get to see her.”

So I don't think it adds a whole lot, but I think people were asking what the note was ‘cause it wasn't really clear from the post.

Mickey: Yeah. I mean, I guess other people are suspecting that there's something else going on too.

Pugly: Suspecting that, like, what kind of—

Mickey: Something between them. Is that what the first part is? Something else going on?

Pugly: I guess so. I guess. Yeah…

Mickey: Confusing. I don't know. Hm…

Pugly: Would you go out with a pizza delivery guy?

Mickey: My dad was a pizza delivery guy for a little bit.

Pugly: Aw.

Mickey: Yeah. When we first moved here.

Pugly: I used to, as a child, when the pizza delivery guy came to the door (or woman), I would say, “I love you!” as they were leaving. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] See? Every little kid wants pizza. That's the love of their life.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: You can't, you can't get mad at a kid for being motivated by pizza.

Pugly: Yeah, it was my… My first true loves were the pizza delivery guys.

Mickey: No, it was conditional. That was not true love. Unless they gave you pizza, you were not going to say, “I love you!” [laughs] Um, yeah, I know. I, I there's nothing wrong with being a pizza delivery guy. It's obviously, like, you're anyone who's hard working, I deeply respect that.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I admire that as well.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Well, anyways, we do have a few comments on this post. You interested in hearing those?

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: So one comes from winnie_the_grizzly, and they say: “It's your girlfriend's apartment. Your girlfriend placed the order. It is your girlfriend's relationship with the pizza guy (not implying anything intimate here, just the routine interactions we have with the minor players in our lives). The note was to your girlfriend. Your girlfriend asked you to drop it.

If your girlfriend had been upset by this guy's behavior, I'd say not the AH. In a vacuum, it sounds creepy. However, the only time she indicated she didn't approve of this was when you were in a white-hot rage immediately after having gotten someone fired, which, you know, isn't when someone is going to say they like someone else's attention. You took it upon yourself to grab your girlfriend's letter without even letting her read it first. You took it upon yourself to chase some guy away. You took it upon yourself to get the dude fired even after your girlfriend told you she wanted you to leave it alone. You LIED to your girlfriend about agreeing to leave it alone. So this didn't happen in a vacuum. Maybe she's been complaining to the delivery guy about her controlling boyfriend, and he legitimately was worried about her? I've never even met you, and you sound controlling and worrisome.”

Mickey: Ooh…

Pugly: That's a take.

Mickey: That is a take. I can see that.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: I mean, I don't necessarily know that I would complain to the pizza delivery guy, but I would complain to my hairdresser. Or the girls at the nail salon. Or… who else would I complain to? An Uber driver. That's enough time. When someone drops off a pizza, is it enough time to say like, “My boyfriend is controlling”?

Pugly: I mean, if they’re willing to stick around…

Mickey: I mean, [laughs] they got pizzas to deliver.

Pugly: I guess. But you could just say, “Yeah, there was traffic on the way back,” or “There was a wreck.”

Mickey: Yeah, there's some motivation there to stay. I don't know. People, people are good inherently, I think. But, um, I don't know. Yeah, I like that take though.

Pugly: They did add a little, a few extra lines here. They said, “If you're worried that your girlfriend and the pizza guy are getting too flirty, the way to handle it is with a conversation with your girlfriend, possibly a breakup, not by getting the guy fired. YTA.”

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Yep.

Mickey: Yep. People who make their own problems everybody else's problems are not adults. You know what I mean?

Pugly: Like, expand on how that relates to the situation.

Mickey: Like he doesn't like how the pizza guy’s, uh, behaving, and he, he, he acted appropriately. He said, “Okay, you can leave now.”

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: That's fine. Close the door, and there's a note. Could also be seen as creepy. At that point, you talk to your girlfriend. It's, it's a problem between you and your girlfriend. It’s not—

Pugly: How would that conversation go?

Mickey: You'd be like, “Hey, uh… what the heck is this? Like, he's sending you a note.”

Pugly: [chuckles]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I would, I would take it a different way. Like, I would probably introduce the note to her with laughter, and just say like, “Ha, the pizza guy just left this note for you.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Like, “That's so funny. What is he doing that about?”

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. And then…

Pugly: Keep it lighthearted.

Mickey: Lighthearted, everything should be lighthearted. Um, and then based on her reaction, see where you wanna go, like, why are you making… Like, so she was like, “Oh, just drop it,” and he is so mad that she said that, that he got the guy fired. You know what I mean? That's what pissed him off. The fact that she wasn't, like, upset by it or, like, didn't want him to do anything about it.

Pugly: Mmm… Yeah, it pissed him off that she wasn't upset is what you're saying about the pizza guy's note.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. So he reacted to that by getting the guy fired when that's an interpersonal problem between him and his girlfriend. Deal with it interpersonally. So far, has the pizza guy broken any real boundaries? No. Well, a little bit. [laughs] Um, none that she's put down, you know?

Pugly: True.

Mickey: That we know of. So I just feel like he… Yeah, he handled this the wrong way. The OP.

Pugly: Another poster said: “Man… This is a hard one to judge because I get why you reacted the way you did because pizza guy is way out of line, but I also get where your girlfriend is coming from.

Women have to be very, very careful in how we interact with men, especially men who know where we live.

You now have a situation where a man who makes bad choices when it comes to interacting with women has now possibly been fired from his job. He knows it is because of your girlfriend, and he knows where she lives. He has the potential to present a very real threat to your girlfriend's safety.

So I guess slightly YTA because you escalated the situation every step without taking into account the possible danger your girlfriend will now be in… But it's not your fault you didn't realize this because you don't have the experience women do with having to be careful in how we deal with men because we have to consider whether he is going to hurt us.”

Mickey: That is so true. I didn't even think about that.

Pugly: Well, I think all of that is true except for that last line where she says, “Oh, you're excused though because you're a man, so you don't have this experience of knowing how to predict that a man might hurt you.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Like, be considerate, be empathic, be, you know, like understanding of someone else's perspective or…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: experience.

Mickey: Yeah, ugh… My God. And how you do that is by having a conversation, and he didn't do that.

Pugly: Yeah. Fuck him.

Mickey: Yeah. [sighs] I hate that, um…

Pugly: Pizza tears us apart. I hate it too.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah, I wish it just brought us together.

Pugly: I know. That's, that's been my experience with pizza. Like I said, I just love all the pizza delivery guys. I've always let them know that—except at a certain age, it got a little bit weird, so I stopped. [laughs]

Mickey: You had to retire that one.

Pugly: I did, yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: But I do still feel it internally. Every time I get delivered a pizza box, I'm like, “Aww.”

Mickey: “Bless this person.”

Pugly: “Bless this person.”

Mickey: And I, anytime I get anything delivered. Amazon people, the people who—not just delivery, but the other way around where the people who pick up the recycling and the garbage cans—bless them.

Mickey: And the pizza boxes… For us, that goes in the trash can. In my neighborhood.

Pugly: In our neighborhood, it's this weird recycling ordeal. You know…

Mickey: You guys Pugly, her neighborhood, has an HOA, and mine doesn't, so we have very different experiences. [laughs] Everything's casual in my, my neighborhood, and then in Pugly’s neighborhood, it's like… you gotta do things a certain way.

Pugly: Hm…

Mickey: Yeah. Do you guys think that HOAs should be abolished—yes or no?

Pugly: I do want to do an HOA episode at some point.

Mickey: [laughs] Okay!

Pugly: I have some stories for it.

Mickey: Oh my God. Okay, actually that would be probably really funny. Yeah, I'm ready.

Pugly: But yeah, that's a future—that's something to look forward to, dear listeners.

Mickey: Yay! It's almost Christmas also. That's something to look forward to. I don't even celebrate Christmas, but I love Christmastime.

Pugly: Yeah, I have the best, one of my favorite stories of all time from Reddit that I've read so far, is in the Christmas episode that we have upcoming.

Mickey: Ooh, okay. Well, we'll be doing that with Poppy soon, so…

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: So, yeah, it's almost Christmas and then New Year's and then, you know—

Pugly: Valentine's Day.

Mickey: Valentine’s Day, and then… Oh, you forgot Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

Pugly: Well, I don't know that we have enough stories for that holiday.

Mickey: [laughs] No, but it's just exciting. A whole new year is coming. Um, listeners, what are your goals for the new upcoming year? [laughs] Um, okay, so…

Pugly: What are your goals for the New Year?

Mickey: My goals for the New Year… Well, I wanna keep them to myself, to be honest.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I have a goal.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: It's not a goal. It's just a thought.

Mickey: Wow.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: One thought.

Pugly: It's that I just feel like Chappell Roan would thrive in Schitt's Creek, the town.

Mickey: Oh! Oh! That's funny. Why do you say that?

Pugly: Just because I feel like the townspeople there would like see her and not be that amazed by her accomplishments, and… I don't know, it could just be a good fit for her. Like, the fame wouldn't be a contender there.

Mickey: Not the townspeople. [laughs]

Pugly: What do you want to call them then?

Mickey: The townspeople! Chappell, go to Schitt's Creek. The townspeople there wouldn't care who you are.

Pugly: [laughs] Yeah.

Mickey: Also, please give us tickets to something. We’re literally your biggest fans.

Pugly: And I'm sure she's listening to this.

Mickey: I'm sure. I'm sure. Actually, we had some really exciting stats for our, um, you know, Spotify Wrapped.

Pugly: Yeah, we did.

Mickey: Yeah. Thank you guys for listening and supporting us. We're really proud of this podcast. Um Pugly, our Employee of the Month, is a queen. She has this shit running so smoothly.

Pugly: We're hoping to release more episodes next year than we did this year. We really dropped the ball at some point. But…

Mickey: That's life though. You drop the ball and then you pick it back up.

Pugly: We'll at least try to keep you aware of any upcoming hiatuses as they come.

Mickey: Yeah, that's a good idea. We should be more communicative.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah. And it's so hard. I think that's one goal to have for the next year is to recognize when you're in a different phase, like a funk, for example, like just call it a funk and say, “Hey, guys, I'm in a funk. I’ll be unavailable for four weeks.” [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] Four weeks!

Mickey: I wish I could do that in my social life. I mean, I’m sure—

Pugly: Or in work.

Mickey: Or at work? [laughs] Can you imagine?

Pugly: “I'm just a little down right now. It's going to take me about four weeks to recover.”

Mickey: No, but like that's against my, my very being because I'm an earth sign. I'm sorry, I can't… Like, I will quit everything before I quit work.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: Literally, I love working. I really do. I'm not like you, Pugly.

Pugly: I thrive—

Mickey: I know, but I thrive too. I thrive at work too. It's just in a different way than you because of my moon sign. I'm a Gemini moon, you guys.

Pugly: Um, Pugly is a Virgo moon, so she doesn't get it.

Pugly: What don't I get? You're two-faced. That’s, I get that.

Mickey: You don't know anything about zodiacs. All you know about Gemini is the whole two-faced thing. Like, shut up. You're embarrassing yourself.

Pugly: Really? Am I?

Mickey: Yeah. Really, you are.

Pugly: I think the true listeners, they're going to agree with me that zodiac shit is bullshit.

Mickey: It is bullshit. But it's fun bullshit.

Pugly: Okay… Alrighty then.

Mickey: Alright, guys. Well, we will talk to you guys next time in our Christmas episode. Y'all have a good one.

Pugly: Well, we really appreciate you guys listening. Um, thanks so much. We just love hearing ourselves talk. That's why we're still here.

Mickey: I wish they could talk back to us. Like, I wish if the people who are truly enjoying our podcast, I wish I could hear their thoughts. Y'all, let us know your thoughts!

Pugly: Yeah. Send us a comment or something.

Mickey: An email, let's be pen pals.

Pugly: No, not email. Send us a comment on Spotify.

Mickey: Or an email.

Pugly: Or an email is fine too. Actually, you know what? We did get a little bit of some merch. Um, If you are one of the first three people in the United States to email us or comment somewhere with your mailing address, we're willing to send you some stuff for free.

Mickey: Yeah, let us know. Reach out.

Pugly: Yeah, send us an email. It's in our show notes.

Mickey: Alright. Well, uh, we will talk to you guys later. Peace.

Pugly: Goodbye.

Mickey: [laughs] Bye.

[Theme song]