Mickey: I'm going to open my soda here… if I could… [laughs] I’m trying to do a ASMR, but I can't… get it. [opens soda can]

Pugly: [screams]

Mickey: [laughs] Shut up! You guys, doesn't Stanley Tucci have the best head of hair ever?

Pugly: Silence…

Mickey: It was just a pause so that they can respond. It's an engaging, uh, what is it called? Interactive podcast. [laughs]

Pugly: Oh, okay.

Mickey: Okay… Alright. So today, uh, on Secondhand Confessions, we're going to be talking about a few stories. I think—

Pugly: Do we want to address the name change or just go into it?

Mickey: Oh yeah, we changed our name to Secondhand Confessions because it's a much better name than Secondhand Therapy.

Pugly: Better. In all ways.

Mickey: Yeah. Um, and you know what?

Pugly: No, we don't need to get into it. [laughs]

Mickey: You know, you can edit it out.

Pugly: I shouldn't have even… I shouldn’t have even initiated.

Mickey: You can edit it out. Um, what I will say, what I will say is, um…

[Theme song]

Mickey: Welcome back to Secondhand Confessions. We've changed our name.

Pugly: We have.

Mickey: Uh, we just thought it was a much better name than the previous name, so we’re gonna run with it.

Pugly: Yeah, let's do that.

Mickey: Um, thank you guys for listening in again.

Pugly: And actually, my therapist was in full support, so…

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Just ironically.

Mickey: Your healing journey is a kind one. It's funny how some people’s are not. Um… But today we're going to discuss a few stories. I think we have a couple lined up that are a little bit similar, you said. Um… Do you want me to start first?

Pugly: Or at least the titles were.

Mickey: Mhm. So this one is from 10 days ago. Uh, it says, “WIBTA for dumping my girlfriend after she ignored my calls and messages and went clubbing while I was undergoing emergency surgery?” Yikes.

Pugly: Wow…

Mickey: The title is bad.

Pugly: Yeah…

Mickey: Let's keep reading to see if it's truly that bad. I (22M) and my girlfriend (22F) have been together for five years.

Mickey: So since they were… they were 17. That's—

Pugly: Whoa. Quick math.

Mickey: What do you mean? [laughs] That wasn’t very quick.

Pugly: For me? It might take me about a year to get through that. [laughs] Subtraction just ain't it for me.

Mickey: Oh, man. Um, actually, you know, I don't, I'm not great with subtraction, so I often do addition to get to…

Pugly: I see.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: So like you do process of elimination going through—

Mickey: Yeah, quickly. Yeah.

Pugly: Gotcha.

Mickey: Anyway, so, uh, we've been together since high school, and until recently, I've always considered her to be my future wife. I've even bought a ring and was planning on proposing over the coming months. Well—

Pugly: Very serious.

Mickey: Yeah, very serious. And, you know, sometimes, I don't… When I read these sometimes and I'm like everything was perfect until one day it wasn't, I'm like, I wonder: Was everything perfect?

Pugly: I wonder the same.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah. So he says: Well, last weekend it was my girlfriend's best friend's birthday. She and her friends booked a private lounge at a club. Obviously, I didn't go since I wasn't invited, and I hate clubbing or anything associated with that. I was actually looking forward to spending an evening alone and just binging Netflix or something. Well, my girlfriend left around 9:00 PM, and I just crashed on the couch and watched some YouTube. Around 11:00 PM, I started to feel this distinct stomach pain. The same pain you experience when someone hits you in the nuts.

You know, I didn't understand this because—

Pugly: That's relatable to me because—

Mickey: Oh… [laughs]

Pugly: You know how like cramps like are like a full-body experience sometimes even though they're… you know, isolated to a particular kind of region of your body?

Mickey: Yeah, but that, but that's like because of hormones and inflammation. But like, I didn't understand this because it's like somebody hits you in the nuts, like, why does your stomach hurt?

Pugly: I mean, it makes sense to me.

Mickey: Because the pain radiates?

Pugly: I don't know. I’ve never experienced it.

Mickey: You know, that's not the point of this… article, as you say, so let’s move on.

It wasn't bad at first, and I just thought my body was playing some tricks on me, but in the span of about five minutes, the pain just kept getting worse until I was basically stuck in the fetal position on the couch.

Pugly: Appendectomy incoming.

Mickey: Mhm. Perhaps… Again, initially, I just thought the pain would go, but then I pulled down my pants, and it felt like my right testicle was starting to swell. Ooh…

Pugly: Okay, maybe there is something else going on.

Mickey: Yeah. Sorry, buddy. That sounds painful.

Pugly: Yeah. Only the right one too.

Mickey: The moment I tried to get up and grab my phone to inspect whatever the fuck was happening to me, I just collapsed to the floor. This was probably the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. Imagine being pelted in the nuts over and over again.

Pugly: He acts like women aren't reading this.

Mickey: This is the worst pain he's ever felt in his life.

Pugly: I know. Okay, fine.

Mickey: Let's not project onto this poor guy, okay?

Pugly: Okay, fine.

Mickey: We're on our healing journeys, remember? [laughs] Oh, man.

Pugly: I'm regressing.

Mickey: I did manage to crawl to the table next to the couch to get my phone. I immediately tried calling my girlfriend, but she declined my call. I then texted her that something was wrong, and could she come home immediately? The club she went to is like a five-minute walk from our apartment. I just put the phone down and started throwing up because of the pain. After throwing up for like a minute, it felt like the pain started to cool down a bit, and I grabbed my phone again. That's when I saw her response. She just replied with a, “What is it? 😒” and that emoji that's like—

Pugly: “Ugh.”

Mickey: No, like, like, like looking side eye… Side eye emoji.

Pugly: Like I'm inconvenienced, and I can't stand to be, to feel this way.

Mickey: Wow. It's so hard to like be a poet. Anyway… I tried calling her again, but as expected, she just declined again. I then texted her that I need to go to the hospital—

Pugly: As expected? Maybe you're right about this relationship not being all he's hyped it up to be.

Mickey: Mhm. I then texted her that I need to go to the hospital now. She asked for what, and I just replied with my balls hurt. Uh, I then just dialed for emergency services. I explained my situation to the emergency responder, and she asked if there was somebody that could drive me to the hospital, and I stupidly said yes. I thought my girlfriend would be home soon, and she would drive me to the hospital. I felt embarrassed to call an ambulance because my “balls hurt.” After I told the emergency responder this, she told me she would call me again in 10 minutes to make sure I was being driven to the hospital. That's so nice. I then put down the phone… This guy says “then” a lot, I'm sorry, I'm gonna start deleting them.

I put down the phone and went back to vomiting on our carpet. Ooh.

Pugly: [laughs] The detail…

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Not just like “I went back to vomiting,” but like, “on our carpet.” [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Yikes. Um, again, after the pain went away for a bit, I checked my phone and saw that my girlfriend just responded with laughing emojis. I tried to call her, but as expected, she just declined again. She texted me that this wasn't the time to play games, and she told me if I texted or called her again, she would block my number.

Pugly: [scoffs]

Mickey: I tried calling her, but she declined again, and when I tried calling her a second time, I realized she actually blocked me.

Pugly: Uh…

Mickey: I went back to curling up on the floor, and I started shivering. At this point, I didn't care about being embarrassed and just called emergency services again and asked for an ambulance. It felt like an eternity, but they eventually came and rushed me to the hospital. I don't remember much of the surgery since I was sedated, but I remember waking up eventually, and my right testicle was being stitched together.

I don't think this person lives in America.

The doctor informed me that I had a testicular torsion, and I was extremely lucky to reach the hospital in time. I could have easily been forced to surgically remove my testicle. With my own handsss. I’m just kidding.

I checked my phone and saw the missed calls and messages my girlfriend left me.

Pugly: Oh, now she wants to talk.

Mickey: Mhm. In summary, she came home from clubbing and smelled the vomit in our apartment. When she saw the vomit on our carpet, she got mad and tried searching the apartment to find me. Wow… When she realized I wasn't there, only then did it hit her that I was actually being serious.

Pugly: [scoffs]

Mickey: Wow.

Pugly: Not the vomit—that's not the sign that it was serious. It was the fact that he wasn't there.

Mickey: Yeah. Um… I texted her in which hospital I was staying in and my room number then went to sleep. I woke up the next morning and saw her sleeping on a couch next to my bed.

After she woke up, she started bombarding me with apologies. She thought I was joking, that I was trying to ruin their night, etc. I didn't have the energy to argue, so I just kept quiet. I was beyond hurt by what she did, and I wanted to break up with her then and there. Why the fuck would somebody ignore messages where their partner is begging them to come home? Not only that, she stayed in the club until 3:00 AM and didn't even consider going home to check on me. She did stay with me in the hospital for the remaining two days I was admitted there and did take good care of me, but I was still beyond pissed at her. Ever since coming home yesterday, I've been wanting to dump her, but at the same time, I feel like she genuinely thought I was joking and made a mistake. I feel conflicted and don't know how to proceed in this situation.

WIBTA if I dumped her? Am I overreacting?

Well, surface level? No, you wouldn't be the asshole. But I do have some questions. What about you?

Pugly: I think her initial reaction is pretty immature. I mean, they are only what, 22, you said?

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: So there is that to consider. But like, at the same time, if someone says, “Hey, I have an emergency,” you should be a minuteman at that point.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Like, you should be getting ready, going to the scene of the crime.

Mickey: Vite, vite.

Pugly: Yeah, hurry, hurry.

Mickey: Hurry, hurry. [laughs] Yalla.

Pugly: Yalla.

Mickey: Yeah, I think when he just said, “My balls hurt,” and I'm thinking she's drunk, you know, she's at the club. She's drunk, like, you know, what do you expect? But…

Pugly: Yeah, but then she gets to the apartment, and she smells the vomit, she sees the vomit, she sees he’s not there…

Mickey: Uh huh.

Pugly: I mean it's clicking for her, I guess, but like she also got mad, he said? Like you mentioned that like—

Mickey: She got mad when she smelled the vomit. She was like upset that he vomited everywhere or whatever.

Pugly: Like he chose to do that?

Mickey: I know. But something somebody said in the comments…

Pugly: Okay, wait. Let’s go to your questions first.

Mickey: Oh yeah.

Pugly: You said you had questions for him.

Mickey: Well, so, I think, I think the biggest asshole thing she did was block him.

Pugly: Yeah!

Mickey: Like, why would she do that?

Pugly: But do we have verification of that? Like…

Mickey: No, we don't have verification of anything.

Pugly: So we don't know that she blocked him. But I do agree. We kind of glossed over this—the fact that he, his response to her was like, “My balls hurt” and not like, “I have an emergency. My balls are causing me to vomit, it’s so bad.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Like, the fact that he wasn't like conveying the level of emergency does make me think that there's some leniency to be had on her end.

Mickey: Yeah.

Mickey: But at the same time, he is in an active emergency situation right now, so there's no time to be like, you know, sending a novel text.

Mickey: No, there's not. And like, if your partner needs you, you go to them. That's the—

Pugly: Yeah. I mean, if they express that, for sure.

Mickey: And not even just your partner, even your friend. Like if it was just her friend who told her this… If, if my friend texted me and I was out like an hour away, I would get my ass in the car and drive to them, you know? Let alone your partner is five minutes away. Five minutes. Like, walking.

Pugly: Yeah. The concerns that I don't have in this situation just because of the way that he conveyed his reaction to being alone at this time. Um, he said that he was gonna… He was looking forward to being able to like Netflix, you know, watch Netflix on his own or whatever it was. Usually I'd be asking is this like a theme where this person is like continuously interrupting the girlfriend's pleasure activities or whatever because they're jealous or whatever the case might be?

Mickey: Yeah. Yeah. That would be something I would wonder, and actually, um, something she said backed that kind of theory up.

Pugly: That he was trying to ruin their night?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: “She thought I was joking, that I was trying to ruin their night.”

Mickey: Mhm. Yeah. Like, why would she think that?

Pugly: I don't know. Maybe she's so drunk that she's just, like, “I don't want to be, you know, distracted from what I'm doing.”

Mickey: No, but she didn't think, “Oh, he must be, he’s just distracting me,” she thought, “Oh, he’s trying to ruin my night.” Why would she think that?

Pugly: I don't know. Maybe they do have a history of tension.

Mickey: Yeah. Because I feel like, I feel like this guy is leaving stuff out, but he didn't think to leave that out. Because to him, this is normal.

Pugly: Is that what the comments are saying—they're emphasizing that part of it?

Mickey: I didn't read any of that in the comments, but after I read the comments—so basically, somebody… like they were all asking a lot of questions like, “Why, why is this a normal reaction for her?”

Pugly: Yeah. Like, why is this the pattern of behavior that's being exhibited by you two?

Mickey: Yeah, and a lot of people asked him if he pranks her.

Pugly: Oh.

Mickey: And he dodged the question a lot, but at some point—and I think he deleted it later—but there's, like, people saw it, but he did say he pranked her quite a bit.

Pugly: I was going to say earlier that, like, in a relationship, I think you get 1-2 emergency situations where you call on somebody in the middle of some activity they're doing where they had planned to not have you present.

Mickey: Uh huh.

Pugly: And then after that point, if none of those were real, then you do get to sort of be skeptical of that request.

Mickey: Yeah, or just like 1-2 pranks, I think. Like, big pranks. I don't know. Even if… If somebody's just a prankster all the time, how do you believe them?

Pugly: Exactly. Why would you be in a relationship with somebody that does pranks, like, constantly? That, that's… I could never.

Mickey: The thing is like, I think that's like a personality type for guys is like, guys who prank, you know?

Pugly: I think there are such types. But like, my question is why would you be with them?

Mickey: Well, it's hard out here, okay? Some guys, that's their only flaw. It's a big flaw.

Pugly: Wouldn't you rather be single than be with a prankster?

Mickey: Yeah, I would be. I would be, yeah.

Pugly: Yeah. What's with these people that don’t—

Mickey: I guess the thing is like, sometimes you get into a relationship and like, yeah, oh, it's funny, like, he's just, he's, he likes to do little pranks and then it like, and then it's your everyday life. You're like, “Okay, I thought you were gonna grow up, like…” And, but then you have feelings for that person and you live with them. I think, I think they live together. So… It’s like, then you feel like too invested.

Pugly: Yeah, because it's their carpet. Our carpet.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: So they live together.

Mickey: Mhm. Yeah. You were still there, I didn’t realize, sorry. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah, you were just… I was just responding to the fact that you weren't quite sure. You expressed some uncertainty there, so…

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, so, I think, like, when you ask, like, “Why would someone be with someone like that?” I think it starts off small, and then they're like, “Oh, she's okay with it, I’m going to keep doing it.”

Pugly: Yeah, it escalates.

Mickey: Or not even she's okay with it, but like, “Oh, it gets a reaction out of her, so I’m going to keep doing it.”

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: So immature.

Pugly: So, I mean, I do… [sighs] I'm conflicted here because at the same time, if someone uses the word emergency—which, I guess he didn't in his text—he said, all he said was, you know, “My balls hurt” or whatever…

Mickey: I think, I think the first text he sent said emergency though.

Pugly: Oh, okay.

Mickey: Hold on, let me see…

Pugly: In which case if his pranks contained the word emergency, then I do not blame her for not reacting. You know, like this is like a, a boy who cried wolf situation.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Like you can't expect to deceive somebody into thinking there's a serious situation and then have a serious situation and expect them to respond promptly. Like…

Mickey: Yeah, I, I, so apparently what he told her was, um, he called her, she didn't answer, she said, “What is it?” He tried to call her again. She declined, and then he said, “I need to go to the hospital now.” And then she asked why. He said, “My balls hurt.” So, actually, he didn't say it was an emergency.

Pugly: It does sound pranky.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Like, when you think about that succession of texts.

Mickey: Yeah. It sucks that this happened to him. I wish she had believed him and, like, been there for him, and it's not like… But like, I wonder if the foundation of the relationship was good enough that like that could have happened.

Pugly: Yeah. Can you go over the texts where you saw those questions being asked and his responses to them? Like, which texts were the most, I guess, salient to the situation, I guess.

Mickey: Um…

Pugly: But when she did get the information that this was like, legitimate, she responded appropriately. She didn't just leave him there hanging, you know?

Mickey: No. That's what makes me like, “Hm…”

Pugly: The blocking? Immature.

Mickey: Very immature.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Like if I could talk to her right now, I'd be like, “What the fuck?”

Pugly: Yeah. If she did perceive this as a prank, like, her response should have just been to ignore the text for a while.

Mickey: Yeah. Someone said, um, in fairness, “My balls hurt” does kind of sound like you're taking the piss. That said, unless you routinely cry wolf or try to invent excuses to keep her from going out or ruining her night, her refusal to pick up the phone and then blocking you seems like an incredibly shitty thing to do. I can’t imagine doing that to my husband. Maybe have a conversation with her about how upset this has made you and go from there.

Pugly: Yeah. Did he respond to that?

Mickey: No, he didn't respond to that.

Pugly: Oh, I see.

Mickey: This is a weird one. If someone texted me telling me they needed to go to the hospital because their balls hurt, I’d think they were out of their mind. If they text me telling me they're in excruciating pain, vomiting on the floor, and feeling like their balls are being repeatedly ripped from their body, I’d be there in minutes.

Pugly: Mhm. Yeah, I think the way he communicated his pain was not accurate or like showing the level of pain that he was experiencing at the time.

Mickey: Yeah, like maybe it's not his fault, like he was in too much pain to express it, but in general, in a relationship or in any, not in like just a romantic relationship, any communication you have, you have to express yourself fully to expect like a full response.

Pugly: Also, there are such things as audio notes now, so like, even though it would take more time to write out a text, you can just like excruciatingly, you know, express just how bad you're, you're feeling pretty easily. Just click that microphone button.

Mickey: Well, maybe he was like too in pain to remember that.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: I'm thinking about myself, like if I were in pain. I would call.

Pugly: I think he tried. Did he try?

Mickey: He kept trying to call.

Pugly: Yeah, that was, that was on her part. Like, if someone tries to call you multiple times, then that's kind of on you to be—

Mickey: Something is wrong.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: But yeah, like communication is key. Again, like, if you only communicated, “I need to go to the hospital. My balls hurt.”

Pugly: I don't know that you can expect a, you know, a, a quick and rational response.

Mickey: Yeah. Not like her response was good either, but your communication was not good.

Pugly: Right. Yeah. I think there's, there's mistakes on both sides.

Mickey: Yeah. Somebody said in the, uh, in the comments he has admitted that he has pranked her many times over the years. He won't say how often, um… or detail or detail a list of his pranks. He said they were just silly jokes and won't say what any of the pranks were aside from, uh, putting bracelets he bought for her and a packet of chips. Okay… We don't know what types of pranks he has a history of. We don't know how often he pranks her. We don't know if he has a history of trying to get her to come home when she's out. He did say he's never pretended to be in danger or have a medical emergency before. I think this was important information that should have been in the main post along with a list of pranks and how often he does them and whether he's tried to either get her to come home before when she's out or pranked her while she's out before.

Pugly: That's the thing is that I don't think that people who prank people consistently understand that, like, the level of doubt that, that, that inflicts on the person, you know? Like, it really calls into question your reliability as like a trustworthy figure when you're—

Mickey: Pranking all the time.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah, like your word, your word is your word, and like in a partnership, that's all you have is like your word, and then it has to be true. Or else like what, what is the trust?

Pugly: Yeah, there's no value to it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Um… There is an update on this, I found.

Mickey: Oh.

Pugly: Did you, did you know about it?

Mickey: I didn't know. You wanna read it?

Pugly: Do you want me to?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: So, first of all, I just want to thank you all for the amazing support. It's been quite overwhelming, to be honest. I have so many unread messages, so please, guys, give me some time. I promise I'll respond to all of them.

First of all, I would like to clear up some misconceptions brewing in the comment section of my last post.

No, I have never pulled any malicious pranks on my girlfriend to get her to come home early from a night out or anything. Neither do I have an issue with her going out (as long as she doesn't come home at like 6:00 AM). And no, I've never blown up her phone like that while she was out with friends. We usually go out together since we share the same friend groups. Here are mine and her messages from WhatsApp in order (translated), since people thought I just texted her, “My balls hurt” or something.

Me: [Declined my first two calls.] “[Her name], please come home. Something is wrong.”

Her: ??? Can't talk right now. What is it? 😒 Uh that face we, we did earlier.

Me: [Tried calling her again.] “I need to go to the hospital.”

Her: ???? What?

Me: [Again tried calling her twice.] “My balls hurt. Please come NOW. Something is wrong.”

Her: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Me: [Tried calling her again twice after calling emergency services.]

Her: I swear, don't bother me again or I'm blocking you. Let me fucking enjoy my night out.

Me: [Tried calling her again twice and got blocked.] (At this point, the pain was too bad to try anything with her anymore, and I just called an ambulance.)

Her next message after unblocking me at 2:00 AM: “[My name], why the fuck is there vomit in the living room, and where the fuck are you? Why is the front door unlocked if you left somewhere?”

She then went into a full mental breakdown as she realized I was being serious about going to the hospital. Over 70 messages.

Yes, it was stupid of me to expect her to drive me to the hospital since she was drinking, but again, in that type of pain, you don't think clearly. I think I needed her more for moral support, and I did it out of pure instinct.

Not immediately calling an ambulance was also stupid of me. I was in a lot of pain, but stupidly at the time, thought that whatever I was going through would eventually calm down, and driving to the hospital would be better than calling an ambulance. Also, in hindsight, me being embarrassed about calling an ambulance over “my balls” was definitely also really stupid.

Now for the update. Thanks for all those who wished me a speedy recovery. I'm doing much better now. Not being able to go to work for the next three weeks is definitely a bummer. I work for my dad's construction company, and my job requires lifting a lot of heavy weights. I'm also prohibited from having any sex for the next 2-3 weeks as well. I might have also developed some trauma due to the pain. I randomly get the same sensation again, and it's driving me nuts. (See what I did there?)

As for me and my girlfriend, it's complicated. As so many of you and my mom told me, five years is definitely a long time to be just throwing away without having a proper conversation with her. So I did just that. I told her how hurt I felt by everything. I mentioned the following points:

·  Her ignoring my messages and declining my calls (yes, clubs are loud, but where I'm from, there are smoking areas where you can definitely have a conversation over the phone.)

·  Blocking me after I tried calling her.

·  Her not checking on me once, even though the club she went to is only a five-minute walk from our apartment.

·  Her being angry about the vomit instead of being concerned.

After hearing that, she got defensive and told me that I could have conveyed my situation better and that she genuinely thought I was joking. She was drunk and wasn't thinking clearly. She also told me that it couldn't have been THAT painful and I was overexaggerating. I then told her yes, I could have phrased my messages better, and I apologized for that, but I then described the pain I was in and told her that I barely had the strength to text her, let alone send her a detailed description of what was happening to me and definitely couldn't think straight throughout everything.

After hearing what I said, she started crying and apologizing for what she did. She told me if she knew how serious it was, we wouldn't have been having this conversation. She then also apologized for her being mad over the vomit. According to her, she was drunk and tired and was just expressing frustration. I then asked her why she thought I was joking and if she was cheating on me, because this was seriously out of character for her, hence why I immediately trusted her with this. She started crying harder and she looked like I just slapped her in the face. She told me that she just thought I was being insecure about her being in the club with a bunch of guys and no, she wasn't cheating on me and would never do something like that. We then hugged for a solid 10 minutes after that.

The next part was really hard for me, but I told her I need some space to gather my thoughts and told her she needs to stay with her parents for the time being. She immediately started having a mental breakdown and asked if I was breaking up with her. I told her I wasn't sure and needed time to see if I still trusted her after all of this and what she did was beyond disrespectful. How could I trust someone with my life after they pulled something like this? I then told her that we are young, and this mess was mostly caused by our immaturity. This entire situation was an important life lesson for the both of us regardless if we stayed together.

After begging a bit more, she then put her head down and started packing a few essentials. Before leaving, she told me she would be willing to do anything to make up for this and then I could take as much time as I needed. She then gave me a big kiss and left. That was two days ago, and this is where we currently stand. I still give her updates on my healing, but besides that, we don't contact each other. Hm… Okay.

I'm really torn right now. I still don't have that trust in her, but her owning up to her mistake shows that she knows she fucked up and is remorseful. This is definitely something out of the ordinary for her, but there will have to be major boundaries and new rules set. I can think of the following:

1.    If she blocks me again for anything, it equals blocking herself from ever seeing me again.

2.    Ignoring my messages will not be tolerated anymore.

3.    If she goes out alone again, she has to pick up if I call, regardless of the situation.

4.    As many of you suggested, having an emergency code like “hospital” or something would probably have to be implemented.

I'm not going to abuse any of these boundaries, but I just want peace of mind knowing that my partner has my best interest at heart, even when she is physically not around me, but I don’t know.

Again, I just want to thank you guys for everything, and this whole experience was definitely an eye-opener for me.

Mickey: So, I think like even if this guy is pranking, like I do think she was wrong to do all the things she did, even if he's like a prankster, um, but I think that if he thinks putting those rules—

Pugly: “Boundaries”

Mickey: —boundaries… People call anything boundaries that they want to call boundaries. Those aren't boundaries. Those are rules that you're setting.

Pugly: It’s legislation.

Mickey: It's legislation. [laughs] Yeah, rules are not good. Rules are not good. That means, as soon as she fucks up one time—she ignores you because she's asleep or whatever—you're gonna hold it over her? Like, what is that?

Pugly: I think some of these are problematic because they don't have a… they're not measurable in like, like, let's see: “2) Ignoring my messages will not be tolerated anymore.” What does ignoring mean? Like, is it ignoring for five minutes? Is it ignoring for an hour? Is it ignoring for a day? Like, there's… you could perceive that any way you want and just be done with it. Which is fair.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: If he's over the situation, then he has a right to break up with the girl. But, um, I just think that, you know, these are, these sound a little controlling some of these rules or boundaries or whatever we're calling them.

Mickey: Yeah, I don't like how this is playing out. I don't think it's gonna work. Um, if they stay together. Tbh.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Sucks.

Pugly: Yeah… So he, he asks again, “WIBTA if I dumped her over this whole saga?”

Mickey: Why does he keep asking everybody?

Pugly: And why does it matter? Like sometimes you're the asshole in situations, and it's still the best thing to do, you know?

Mickey: Yeah. That's true, like sometimes if somebody's not showing up for you…

Pugly: Yeah, you can be a little bit of an ass in—

Mickey: Break up with them.

Pugly: —setting a boundary, breaking up with them, ending the relationship.

Mickey: [laughs] A permanent boundary. Yeah. Um… I don't know, like, I don't think there's a right answer to like stay with her or break up with her. Uh, I just, I definitely don't think what he's doing is the right answer.

Pugly: Yeah. This does remind me of one that I encountered.

Mickey: Alright.

Pugly: In some ways. Not all.

Mickey: Tell us about it.

Pugly: So this is a story called, “Am I the asshole for faking my giving birth?”

Mickey: What? [laughs] Okay.

Pugly: I'll keep this as short as possible. I (25F) am pregnant with the baby, due in a couple of days.

Mickey: The baby. [laughs] Da baby. Uh huh.

Pugly: Lil Baby. Um, my husband (25M) promised that he would be the one to drive me to the hospital and that he will be glued to the phone until birth. He works only 10 minutes from our home—similar to that other story where it was a five-minute walk—and his boss agreed to let him go when the birth happens.

The problem is my mother-in-law. My husband and her have an unhealthy (in my opinion) strong bond, and she is overly involved in our relationship, which has caused many issues in the past. She requires his attention every day; she has suggested moving in with us ever since I became pregnant; she also has “emergencies” whenever we have anniversaries, important occasions (like my birthday), etc.

Mickey: That's rough. Not a mama's boy!

Pugly: Yikes.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: As the date is approaching, I became increasingly worried that his mother will have an “emergency” during birth, and I will have trouble getting to the hospital or will be forced to be alone during. I voiced my concerns, and it caused fights between me and them.

Mickey: Ope. There…

Pugly: A little slip there…

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Uh, I even suggested asking my BSF…

Mickey: Best friend.

Pugly: Best friend to drive me and keep me company (as I'm scared of giving birth), but it was shot down with, “How can't you trust your own husband?!”

Mickey: Who? Her best friend said this, or…?

Pugly: I assume it was the husband.

Mickey: Oh, okay.

Pugly: So, I'm not proud of it, but I faked giving birth yesterday. I called my hubby at work and told him it started. He said he will be right there. After half an hour, I called him to ask where he was, and he didn't answer. After almost an hour, he called me to say he is at the hospital with his mom because, guess what, she is having a medical emergency…

Mickey: Oh my God. [laughs]

Pugly: Apparently, he called her to tell her I am giving birth, and she got a “heart attack” from excitement. He said he will have to miss my birth and actually asked me to call my friend to drive me and stay with me.

Mickey: Oh my God. This is terrible.

Pugly: I admit, I was very angry and heartbroken.

Mickey: Well, she was right.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: So I told him I wasn't actually giving birth and that it was a test that showed me how he would actually behave versus what he said he would do and that it proved he would always care for his mother more than for his own wife who's carrying his child. He was very angry and even blamed me for his mother's heart attack in that moment.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: His mom of course didn't have a heart attack but a “false alarm.” I felt very justified, but now that we talked, I feel guilty. He said he feels manipulated and gaslighted. That just because his mother lied about the emergency doesn't mean I should lie to him. He said that marriage is built on trust, so I have to trust him instead of lying to him to prove a point. He even said that he didn't choose his mother over me, but chose a “bigger emergency,” and that he knew I could “handle getting to the hospital,” but his mother needed him more and that a heart attack is more serious. I pointed out that she lied, but he said he “couldn't have known that,” and that I was “just as bad for lying.”

Mickey: Wait, but he's admitting she's lying… But he's going to believe her again in the future. He's always gonna pick his mom over her.

Pugly: Yeah. So, of the two liars, like, his mom is the better. His mom is the, you know…

Mickey: Well, she had him first, so… [laughs]

Pugly: I feel like I'm going crazy. Am I the asshole?

Mickey: No. In my opinion. I think if, like, if you are seriously doubting your partner, you're allowed to test them.

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: How do you feel about that? [laughs] How do you feel about that?

Pugly: Me?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I mean, that was my reaction. Like—

Mickey: Stanley Tucci.

Pugly: —I don't think it's a good relationship if you're having to test somebody. The trust has been eroded if you’re—

Mickey: What if she tested him and he had, like, passed the test though?

Pugly: I think that's actually one of the comments alludes to that possibility of like, “Oh, if he had passed the test, then you'd be the asshole, but because he didn’t, you’re not an asshole.”

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, because like, she knew.

Pugly: She has these instincts, but this is how I feel in relationships, and I've been party to like a similar situation—not really a similar situation [laughs] A situation where the trust wasn't there, and I ended up testing them in a way.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: And in my gut, I felt like the trust just was not there either way—whether the result was, like, was confirming my beliefs or, you know, disaffirming them.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Um, I don't know. Let's cut that whole part because I'm not making sense right now.

Mickey: No, you are. It makes sense. But my question is, like, if you had tested your partner in that situation and they succeeded actually, like they passed the test, yeah, you would be the asshole, but… And yes, you would, the trust isn’t there, right? But you at least know that the trust, like, it's an internal thing. You need to learn how to trust them better or you need to just talk about it. It's not that they're failing you.

Pugly: I think if you are in a position where testing somebody sounds like a good idea to you—specifically a partner—you are due, overdue for couples counseling.

Mickey: Okay… [laughs] Yeah.

Pugly: Like, you shouldn't go through with the test. You should either do couples counseling or break up because—

Mickey: Yeah, because I think when you feel like you need to test somebody, that means that you don't think a conversation will bring you anywhere just between the two of you.

Pugly: I think, I think, yeah, the conversation is going to end up the same way it has. Oh! “I voiced my concerns, and it caused fights between me and them.” Meaning the mother and son. Like…

Mickey: Yeah, like they were against her.

Pugly: Yeah, like they are the team, and she is the isolated one.

Mickey: So, like, she gave him an opportunity to rise to the occasion because she's like making him aware of how she's feeling and what's going on and, you know, how she would prefer they move forward, but instead of rising to the occasion, he just goes against her.

Pugly: He dove into the depths of the waters.

Mickey: [laughs] He failed her. I mean, he's already failed her. And he failed her again. But I think it's very hard when you're literally about to give birth. Like…

Pugly: Do you think this is a redeemable situation, or do you think this is doomed to fail at any—

Mickey: So, specifically, like mama's boys? No [laughs], I don't think it's redeemable. Like, every mama's boy I've met or every man who's been so ingrained in his family first before his partner, like the relationship is never healed. Like, there's never, nothing good ever comes of it. Like, seriously. Um, they either break up or she stays with him forever and is just stuck to his family for her whole life.

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: But if, if you're talking about just the whole, like, um, there's something they're not on the same page on… like a behavior that he does that she doesn't like, like let's think of another example…

Pugly: Plays too many video games

Mickey: Plays too many video games, and she’s said it to him before and he's just like, “Ugh, like you always like nag me, you stupid woman.” [laughs] And then one day she tests him. She's like, you know, is he gonna like break out of his video game stupor to come take me to the hospital when I'm giving birth?

Pugly: Mhm.

Mickey: Um… and he says, and he doesn't? Okay, no, that's not redeemable either. That’s like—

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: That's, I mean, that's, video games, like, seriously?

Pugly: Yeah, I was gonna say, what's the difference between family and video games?

Mickey: I mean, family is more important a little bit.

Pugly: To some. Not all.

Mickey: No, I think it’s, to everybody, it’s…

Pugly: No.

Mickey: All. Like family, found family, whatever it is, is more important. But um, I think—

Pugly: Schizoid personality disorder.

Mickey: —everybody cares about having a family.

Pugly: Schizoid personality disorder?

Mickey: Maybe not. Do you guys, listeners who are, have schizoid personality disorder?

Pugly: We have 10 listeners, if that.

Mickey: [laughs] Heyyyy.

Pugly: Like there, there we don't have… I don't think our, our reach is that far.

Mickey: Well, maybe you never know.

Pugly: Um, schizoid personality disorder for those who don't know is a chronic medical, I mean, sorry, mental health condition that causes people to be detached and uninterested in social relationships.

Mickey: Okay, um, not to be like, you know [sighs] What's the word?

Pugly: Defeated?

Mickey: Exclusive. [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Mickey: But like, that's not who I'm talking about right now.

Pugly: [gasps]

Mickey: Sorry, guys.

Pugly: Whoa.

Mickey: Maybe you have to cut that out.

Pugly: Well, to that one schizoid personality disorder listener—

Mickey: But they don't care about me, you said.

Pugly: I didn't say that. I said they're uninterested in social relationships.

Mickey: Exactly, so they don't care about me, so I'm just some random person…

Pugly: Well, they're not trying to appease you, that's for sure.

Mickey: I'm not trying to appease them, so…

Pugly: Good.

Mickey: We are in agreement. [laughs] Anyway… Um… I think, let's think of a better example than video games though.

Pugly: Well, you think of one then because I’m not sure where you’re going.

Mickey: A dog, a dog. Like, your husband has a dog that you feel like he always puts ahead of you, and the dog starts like throwing up right when you're about to give birth.

Pugly: But like, that's a legit concern because that was a real physical reaction that the dog had. This was not even—the mother had a panic attack, if that.

Mickey: She had chest pains or that's what she told him, but like, exactly like the first story, remember how we said that the guy like might be a prankster, might not? It's like, well, even if he is a prankster, you should give him the benefit of the doubt. You know? We kind of put that responsibility on the girlfriend's shoulders.

Pugly: Only if, only if your quota hasn't been reached yet. So, like I said, I think there should be 1-2 emergencies granted to the individual, and then at that point, if those were both pranks, then there are no more allot, there's nothing more allotted.

Mickey: I think the quota should be 0 [laughs].

Pugly: Zero?

Mickey: Yeah, because you give people 1-2 and then they're like, “Oh, I like that. That was fun.”

Pugly: Okay, well, then you can handle the emergency on your own at that point.

Mickey: No, but what I'm trying to say is yes, it is absolutely necessary for him to have boundaries with his mother. And he should not be as believing of her. And like, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt where he believed her.

Pugly: Why didn't he call her an Uber?

Mickey: I don't know, that was, he's an asshole. That part is not redeemable. He needs to fuck himself. [laughs]

Pugly: Maybe he will be.

Mickey: But um, I'm just talking about the part with the mom. I'm talking about the relationship with the mom. Like… Like, yes, he needs to put boundaries and he needs to prioritize his, like, you know, wife and family, like his literal future baby over his mom, especially because it seems like his mom is like, has unhealthy attachment to him. Um… But, like, you, you kind of, if that's been the situation for a long time, you can't expect him to change right now.

Pugly: But this is when she needs him to change.

Mickey: I mean, yeah, but like, so what I'm saying is her choice now is either like work on it with him, like go to a couples counseling, like you said, work on it with him, or break up with him.

Pugly: Abandon ship.

Mickey: Because it's going to take a long time for him to change. If he's been like this his whole life.

Pugly: Mmm… Where is this coming from?

Mickey: Um… Not personal experience.

Pugly: Yeah… [laughs]

Mickey: You know, sometimes um… He might not ever change. You never know. [laughs]

Pugly: Yikes. Is that a personal admission or…?

Mickey: I don't know, I feel like, I mean, people, like there is giving people a chance and then there's giving people—

Pugly: Too much leniency.

Mickey: Yeah, like letting them walk all over your boundaries, and that's the line that unfortunately someone like her has to cross with a baby coming. Like that's so scary.

Pugly: Yeah, but you think now is the time for her to be like, “Oh, well, I”—so, actually, she did have an edit that was kind of relevant to these questions that we’re asking right now.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: She says: To answer a common question: “Why did you marry him? Wasn't he putting his mom first from the beginning?” She says, I suppose it is a fair question, but it was never that bad. Well, now it is so… But when we first started, it was lovely. His mother was barely a footnote in our relationship because we were at Uni and far away. I suppose my greatest mistake was agreeing to move into his town versus moving into mine. I come from a town on an opposite side of the country; our Uni was “in the middle,” so to speak, and his mom (while nosy and controlling) was far away and very easy to write off. When we got married, we moved into his town for logistic reasons. (He already had a job lined up in his town; I didn't.) We have been living here for 1.5 years, and it has gotten progressively worse until now. When he isn't in contact with her, he's a good partner, but when you add her into the equation, he becomes a different person (even his friends see it and ask me about it).

Mickey: Hm…

Pugly: So proximity, I think is also another thing.

Mickey: Yeah, I think it's fair for her to ask him that they move far away. And if he says no, he's making a choice. [chuckles]

Pugly: I mean, I think boundaries need to be laid down in some form or fashion—like whether that's moving and getting actual distance between you or setting that boundary, like, for physical space yourself.

Mickey: Well, I'll say, like some people, um… How do I say this? Especially when they don't really want to set the boundary, but they're really just doing it for their partner, like, they kind of need the distance.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: You know what I mean?

Pugly: No.

Mickey: Like, like let's say… Like, ‘cause I, I had this issue before, right? I had boundary issues with my family, right? And it was like, I've had boundary issues with my family my whole life, but I… And in the past, like, I've been able to have better boundaries with them when I've lived far, far away. Like far, far away. And then when I came back, I was like, “Oh my God, not this again.” And I just, I, it was like terrible, like, just like I was like a kid again. I recently have had a lot better, uh, outcomes with trying to enforce boundaries and maintain boundaries with them.

Pugly: And what was the secret?

Mickey: The secret was, is now that I'm older and I'm on my healing journey… [laughs]

Pugly: But you didn't get the physical distance that you're promoting right now.

Mickey: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like I'm, I think, like, not to toot my own horn, but I'm at a place where I've done enough work on myself, and so has my family too, like they’re willing to listen now, that we can, we had those conversations; they were fucking difficult, but we did that, and it was hard, and now we have boundaries. But our relationship is much closer now and better because, because we have those good boundaries, and I don’t feel like, you know, I’m being attacked all the time or they don’t feel like, whatever, I never share with them. Because we have boundaries now, our relationship is better. But like when I was younger, I didn't have those skills. Like, and I didn't, I don't think I had… like, the, like a good support system in place for that either. But what I'm saying is I don't think this guy, like they have a baby on the way, and he still doesn't know how to do that. They got married, like… I think some people, like, just actually need the distance.

Pugly: Mmm…

Mickey: While they work on themselves.

Pugly: Maybe so.

Mickey: Especially like now that they have a baby on the way, like his mom is gonna be at their house all the time.

Pugly: She probably already is, if we’re being honest.

Mickey: If I were her, I would be like, I would like to live somewhere else for a little bit. And if he says no to that, then he's just saying no to, “I don't want to be with you,” or he's saying, “I don't want to be with you on your terms anymore.” Yeah. Any updates?

Pugly: She said: Right now, I want to focus on my baby, but after birth, I think I will have to rethink our life together. I just can't spend the rest of my life in a triad with his mother. Also, I'm sorry for mostly not replying to anyone. I'm emotionally exhausted.

That’s fair.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Yeah. This one's like draining for me too. Just thinking about it.

Mickey: Yeah. I mean, especially like people, people, I mean, I don't even want to say just people, mostly men (but even some women) treat, like, childbirth as if it's like some easy thing. Like, you could literally die giving birth. And your baby could die. Both of you could die. And he's like, “Oh my mom”—

Pugly: His mother could die too during the experience.

Mickey: I know, but like you said, send her an Uber.

Pugly: [laughs] Send her the casket.

Mickey: No, like really? Like, like I wonder if he has siblings… Like if it's just him? If it's, if he's not the only sibling, that is fucked up.

Pugly: But he's the only sibling in close proximity to the mother.

Mickey: Oh, really?

Pugly: I don't know. I'm making that assumption.

Mickey: Well, if he's, that's what I'm saying. If he's not the only sibling in close proximity, I would divorce him right now.

Pugly: Does she not have friends or people that could, you know, help her out in cases of emergency?

Mickey: She does. That's what happened.

Pugly: She can't rely on him only.

Mickey: Well, that's what she said. She was, she told him like, “I wanna, um…”

Pugly: No, no, no, no, no. Not the, not the OP, I'm talking about the mother.

Mickey: Ohhh, yeah. I know.

Pugly: Like, can she not call on somebody to help her?

Mickey: Well, you know, I don't know. I have different opinions about that, but like, seriously, if he has siblings, I would divorce him right now. If he has siblings and he still didn't like call them and say like, “Hey, can you get mom? I need to go. My wife is giving birth.” That's fucked up.

Pugly: Yeah. Well, no, the fact that he texted her, “My wife is giving birth” and then the emergency appeared…

Mickey: Yeah. I mean, but the thing is like, how do we, how does he know? Again, we’re back to the prankster thing.

Pugly: Why doesn't he wait until he gets his wife to the hospital to text his mom, “Hey, she's giving birth now”? Problem solved. He’s already at the hospital.

Mickey: That’s a mama’s boy. This is like, however old, how old is he? Like 30 years? This is 30 years of fucked up like family dynamics for you.

Pugly: He’s 25. They’re both 25.

Mickey: 25 years, I mean, they're young… 25 years of fucked up family dynamics for you. Like, you can't expect him to suddenly act differently.

Pugly: Top comment says: If my mother was for real having a heart attack when my wife went into labor, she would either lie to me so that I would not go to her, or she would insist that I be with my wife. Your mother-in-law is bonkers, and your husband is a jerk for putting her first. “Bigger emergency”?? Is he a cardiologist or an EMT? If not, what the hell is he going to do for her?

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Yeah, I agree. And we don't know if she's having… I mean, we don't even know if she's having testicular torsion.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Like, that could be the issue.

Mickey: It could be. [laughs while eating]

Pugly: You know, because like if you can just imagine the pain of like vomiting when your balls are just feeling so swollen… Don't you just, like, can't that, doesn't that just resonate with you?

Mickey: Yeah, it's happened to me before.

Pugly: [sighs] Never for me, luckily. Knock on wood. “Knock on wood.” [laughs]

Mickey: But are there, are there any updates though, or no?

Pugly: That was the update. Um, there was also a comment that said: “He said that marriage is built on trust, so I have to trust him instead of lying to him to prove a point.” Yeah, but trust is earned. His ongoing behavior with his mother has undermined trust, and therefore, you decided to test if he was still worthy of your trust. He failed. Hard.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: And then someone else says: And notice he didn't have any sanctimonious speeches for his mom and was STILL AT THE HOSPITAL WITH HER after knowing it was faked.

Mickey: [laughs] Throw the whole man away.

Pugly: Yeah. What happens to the baby though?

Mickey: I think being raised by a single mother is much better for you than being raised by a deadbeat dad. Or a mama's boy.

Pugly: I don't know. I… This situation feels hopeless to me.

Mickey: What would you do if you were her?

Pugly: [sighs] I wouldn't be with this man. For various reasons.

Mickey: But if you were and this was happening to you.

Pugly: If I was… if I had a partner that was, like, obsessed with their family, I couldn't tolerate it. I’ve been in that situation. [laughs] Once or twice.

Mickey: [laughs] Hm?

Pugly: Once or twice.

Mickey: Mmm… Once.

Pugly: Once, yeah, once upon a time.

Mickey: What about if they start making changes?

Pugly: Then I would be—

Mickey: But it’s just not very fast.

Pugly: I mean, it depends on the speed because I can't tolerate that forever. I'm fucking getting old.

Mickey: So true.

Pugly: I'm getting old.

Mickey: [laughs] You wanted me to say, “No, you're not.”

Pugly: No.

Mickey: We're getting old.

Pugly: No, I, I am just emphasizing the point.

Mickey: Yeah. No time to waste on losers.

Pugly: I don't have time to waste.

Mickey: On losers, like, really. [laughs] Honestly, like, you're about to be a father and you’re a mama's boy? Loser. I'm starting to get mean, sorry, I'm hangry. [laughs]

Pugly: Mmm… Mmm… Yeah. Um, I don't think I could tolerate it for very long. Maybe approximately like 3, 3.5 years.

Mickey: Wow. [laughs] I always ask you hypothetical questions, and you're like, “I don't know how to answer this because I'm not that person.”

Pugly: No, this wasn't a hypothetical though. I've been in this situation.

Mickey: Oh, that's what, I was like where did this number come from?

Pugly: You don't know? [laughs]

Mickey: I remember now.

Pugly: Yeah, it's coming back.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I don't think I could tolerate it for too long. Probably less now, actually, that I’m older.

Mickey: [laughs] Mhm.

Pugly: Yeah, I wouldn't be doing this for three years.

Mickey: Okay, so I have a question for you. Um… Do you feel like you are aware of your inner self?

Pugly: Do I have self-awareness?

Mickey: Yes.

Pugly: I think so.

Mickey: What makes you feel that way?

Pugly: Like, I know that I'm a piece of shit. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Mmm…

Pugly: And I hear it all the time, so…

Mickey: Who do you hear it from?

Pugly: I… Myself, mostly. But you know who else is a piece of shit?

Mickey: Who?

Pugly: REDACTED [Baby laughing]

Mickey: [laughs] [belches] [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] Okay…

Mickey: [laughs] That's so funny.

Pugly: You do have some poetic-sounding hiccups and burps, to be fair. I will admit. And the timing too was good on that one.

Mickey: It was good. I felt it coming.

Pugly: Not the hiccups usually, but…

Mickey: Yeah. [laughs] I don't think you have self-awareness if you think you're a piece of shit.

Pugly: I occasionally think that.

Mickey: This is a call out for you.

Pugly: On Vraylar, I think it less and less.

Mickey: [laughs] That's good. We're sponsored by Vraylar.

Pugly: Yes, sponsored by Vraylar.

Mickey: Um, but do you, do you, do you understand what I'm saying when I'm saying, as your best friend—I'm still your best friend?

Pugly: My BSF.

Mickey: Your BSF. Me hearing you say you’re a piece of shit and me calling that out as false and saying that actually you're not self-aware, do you believe me?

Pugly: [shakes head no]

Mickey: She is shaking her head no.

Pugly: No. Why would you saying that make me believe you?

Mickey: Because I'm your best friend, you’re supposed to believe me.

Pugly: I believe myself over and above anybody else.

Mickey: Wow. Somebody thinks very highly of themselves. Somebody’s a Capricorn!

Pugly: It is kind of funny because like, isn't it funny that a piece of shit trusts their own opinion more than other people's opinions that they don't view as pieces of shit?

Mickey: I don't think it's your opinion. I think it's your anxiety or depression's opinion.

Pugly: So I need to go up on the Vraylar?

Mickey: Yeah. Vraylar, can you send her twice the dose? Or her psychiatrist, if you’re listening?

Pugly: I went to her last… yesterday.

Mickey: Last yesterday, and what did she say?

Pugly: She said we're sticking with the dose.

Mickey: Aww…

Pugly: Because I said, I lied to her and said everything is okay.

Mickey: Why the fuck would you lie, bitch?

Pugly: [laughs] I don't know. I didn't lie. I, it, everything is better than it used to be. I think, I think of myself as a piece of shit less often than I used to.

Mickey: That’s good.

Pugly: But I still, when I think when I, when I'm confronted with like, who are you as a person or what is your value? like you just asked, my first instinct is to think I'm a piece of shit.

Mickey: I have a comment to make here, a cultural comment. Um, basically, when you live in an individualistic society, you see yourself through this lens of just yourself. Your, your lens is so, is selfish, I guess. But when you live in a communal society, you also like, yeah, you're like, “I'm a piece of shit.” But then you're like, I'm also—

Pugly: Part of the biggest turd ever to exist.

Mickey: [laughs] No, I mean, true if you're talking about America. But, um, you're also like, I'm REDACTED’s daughter, I'm also REDACTED’s daughter, I'm also REDACTED’s sister. I'm also my best friend. I'm also this other person's best friend. I'm also this other person's friend, and this piece of shit brightens their day every single day. And that's really how it is living in a communal society. Like, yeah, you get insecure, and you still feel like pieces of shit sometimes, but it's a lot easier to feel like you have value when you live in a communal society.

But anyway, um, I think that's enough for today. Alright, anything to add?

Pugly: I wouldn't be in the fucking woods.

Mickey: Neither would I, bitch. Actually, I would.

Pugly: I wouldn't be caught dead in the woods. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Ohh, we have really done a lot on our healing journeys.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Mhm. But “I wouldn't be caught dead in” is my new catch phrase.

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: I'm probably overusing it already.

Mickey: No, you're not, because you said that you would start using it, but then you forgot to start using it.

Pugly: Okay, so, you’re choosing the bear-man.

Mickey: My answer is it depends.

Pugly: It depends. But you don't get to select the bear. You don't get to choose your enemy. Your opponent.

Mickey: No, like, I know, but you, but you are choosing your opponent. [laughs] Like that’s the whole point of this question.

Pugly: You don’t get to choose your opponent. No, it’s not like a… No. It’s not Super Smash Bros.

Mickey: I guess, I guess you're right, is like, you're not, you're not allowed to choose if it's a, you know, a man who will assault you or a man who won't assault you. So that’s part of the question.

Pugly: Yeah, you’re going in blind.

Mickey: Yeah, I don't know enough about bears, I think though still. [laughs] But, like, I'm still, like, afraid of a strange man in the forest is the point.

Pugly: And on the street.

Mickey: And on the street. And even inside the mall or even in the grocery store, sometimes. I don't know. Sometimes they look at you.

Pugly: Surrounded by people?

Mickey: Yeah, they're like, I don't know, they're creepy. Sometimes people are creepy.

Pugly: I don’t look at them, so I don't know if they're looking at me.

Mickey: Mmm…

Pugly: I just like avert my gaze.

Mickey: Oh, that's very Muslim of you.

Pugly: Is it?

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: It's, yeah, it's definitely done out of, um, you know, modesty.

Mickey: I give resting nice, nice girl face, and that's the worst thing you can have.

Pugly: Ew.

Mickey: Hm?

Pugly: “Resting nice girl face”?

Mickey: Mhm. I be smiling. My resting face is either a smile—

Pugly: [laughs] You know, I was thinking about doing that the other day.

Mickey: Mhm. Smiling? [laughs]

Pugly: Like I came across my person that smiled at me instinctively when she saw me walking past her in the hallway, and I was like, “Huh… What must that be like to go through life, like, just smiling at strangers?”

Mickey: I do that all the time. You can ask me, ask me anything. I smile at strangers. Ask me anything.

Pugly: Really?

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: Okay. Um, what is it like? Like, why?

Mickey: I feel like, you know, I'm sharing happiness with them.

Pugly: I don't have much to give.

Mickey: That's fine. You don't have to smile at people. That's not your responsibility, but when I have joy, I feel like it's my responsibility to share it.

Pugly: I see.

Mickey: And I think again, that's a very communal attitude.

Pugly: What do you think that they're thinking in their head when you smile at them?

Mickey: Um… Depends. Is it a woman or a man?

Pugly: Woman. It’s me, but you didn't know me beforehand.

Mickey: You specifically, that's harder to answer.

Pugly: Resting bitch face. Just keep that in mind.

Mickey: You’re like, “What the fuck is she—why is she smiling at me?”

Pugly: That is my reaction.

Mickey: Mhm. But like another woman, like an average woman would be like—

Pugly: [gasps]

Mickey: Yeah, sorry, the average woman would be like, “Aw, hey,” and smile back at me and be like, “Hi, how’s your day? Are you okay? Are you doing good?”

Pugly: I'm going to start rolling my eyes at people that smile at me.

Mickey: Mmm… I think that's very manly behavior of you.

Pugly: You're right. I don't want to be like that; I want to be like a bear.

Mickey: But if I, if I smile at a man, he probably thinks, “Oh, she wants me.”

Pugly: That happened at me recently too where a man smiled at me.

Mickey: Oh, well, that's fine. That's nice of him.

Pugly: Or was it?

Mickey: It was.

Pugly: Was it creepy or nice?

Mickey: I don't know, I didn't see him, but, I mean, just knowing that he smiled and that, that alone, it was probably nice.

Pugly: I think he was nice.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I think he was, but he could have been creepy though.

Mickey: He could have been.

Pugly: I've had some creepy smiles too.

Mickey: Oh yeah.

Pugly: You know, you know it when you see it.

Mickey: You know it when you see it.

Pugly: As the famous phrase goes.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: You know the one. And that's a great note to end on.

Mickey: [laughs] You don't know it when you see it.

Pugly: Do you not?

Mickey: Sometimes you don't.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: I don't view enough to have much say in this conversation.

Mickey: And that's what I'm saying, like some of these crackheads out there… [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs] What the fuck?

Mickey: Some of these crackheads will be watching a video of a normal person and they're like, “Oh my God, you are so sexy. I can't believe you are wearing this dress. Please send me feet pics,” and they’re like, literally jacking off to it.

Pugly: [burps]

Mickey: Good timing.

Pugly: [burps] [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Okay… So how shall we end this, mate?

Mickey: Okay, just wanna thank you guys for listening.

Pugly: To Secondhand Confessions. Down under.

Mickey: This is our guest host, guest speaker.

Pugly: Yeah, mate. Uh, my name is Charles Darwin. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] What the fuck?

Pugly: Just kidding, he's not even Australian.

Mickey: You should’ve said Stanley Stanley.

Pugly: Stanley Tucci. Touchy. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah. And you're here to, um, uh, share some, uh, share a product with us today about hair growth, right?

Pugly: Yeah. Um, Rogaine is my number one mate when it comes to hair growth. All I do is I slap it right on the baldness of my head, and I just wait for it to take effect. Take effect down here.

Mickey: Thank you, Stanley. That's very kind of you to share that um insider tip with us.

Pugly: My name is Stanley Tucci.

Mickey: Stanley Tucci, um, are you working on a movie set in Australia right now?

Pugly: Yeah, I'm down under, working on, uh, The Koalas and the Wildebeests… Part two. [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: You never saw the first one. It was actually quite, um, it was a feature film, but it wasn't, it wasn't widely released internationally.

Mickey: It was a small indie film.

Pugly: Yeah, but this one, this one's going big, mate.

Mickey: Mmm… This is gonna be your big break, Stanley Tucci.

Pugly: Yeah, and Rogaine’s gonna help me make it so.

Mickey: Well, we here at Secondhand Confessions wish you good luck on your journey.

Pugly: Thank you, mate.

Mickey: Um, thanks for coming on here with us.

Pugly: No problem.

Mickey: Alright.

Pugly: See you later, mate.

Mickey: Signing off.

Pugly: Bye.

Mickey: Bye.

[Theme song]